GERMAN ELECTION (Running Thread): Schroeder by a Nosehair

Die Welt- translated ^ | 9/22/02 | Die Welt

[x]

Yes, I know. I just wonder why the Social Democrats are marked socalist but the [Christian] Social Union not.

Because German history is so very different from ours. The Social Democrats are the direct descendents of the original Socialist Party of Germany. The Christian Social Union was an anti-Communist, anti-Socialist Catholic party formed in Bavaria. It's the successor of the Catholic Center and Bavarian People's parties and the sister party of the Christian Democratic Union, which exists in the rest of Germany.

Individualism was never as positive an idea in continental Europe as it is the US. Social solidarity was usually rated as more important, save in small circles of intellectuals and capitalists.

Christian Democracy was not as hospitable to wide-open free markets as the Republicans -- or for many years the Democrats -- here were. In theory it intended to protect citizens against the workings of markets almost as much as against socialism or state oppression.

[PoisedWoman]

Germany's SPD/Greens Back Ahead in TV Estimate
Sun Sep 22, 2:39 PM ET

BERLIN (Reuters) - A projection for ARD television Sunday indicated that German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's coalition of Social Democrats and Greens were headed for a tiny majority in parliament over a conservative-liberal alliance.

The latest projection, based on early counts from Sunday's general election, gave Schroeder's center-left SPD 38.1 percent and the environmentalist Greens 8.6 percent, to 38.8 percent for Edmund Stoiber's conservatives and 7.3 percent for their traditional partners, the liberal Free Democrats.

ARD said its calculations indicated this would giving the current SPD/Greens coalition a one-seat parliamentary majority.

ARD's previous projection had put the conservative-liberal alliance in a slim lead.

However, separate projections for ZDF television showed the two possible coalitions level in terms of seats in parliament.

A provisional official result will not be known until after midnight local time (2200 GMT), although German television was broadcasting progressively more accurate projections.

[Torie]

I can't believe that the Greens of FDP won more seats outright than their share to generate more seats. And the CDU and SPD eached picked up another seat without the percentages changing. Clearly I don't understand the system yet.

[VaBthang4]

No problem...the world is already doing that....yet somehow...I dont lose any sleep over it.

Go figure.

[RobFromGa]

Wow this is complicated, I'm leaving it to the pros. Just tell me when you think it is OVER for sure. We need to change the title of the thread then.

[eabinga]

So, Stoiber lost? Do I read you correctly?

He is losing right now, yes. It may change, it is very close. But don't get your hopes up.

[marajade]

"Clearly I don't understand the system yet."

But its a clever system.... Okie dokie...

[Torie]

Ya, but it is hard to believe that any party had more directly elected than their percentage share given that two parties didn't make the cut, unless it is the percentage of only those parties that make the cut.

[eabinga]

But the PDS didn't get 3 seats OR 5% minimum to be included as part of Parliament. What is the meaning of this "rule"?

The 2 PDS seats remain, you can't deny a direct representative his/her seat.

If a party has at least 5% OR 3 direct seats, he wins seats in proportion to the votes received. This is to prevent small parties from splittering up parliament, which helped Hitler came to power.

[eabinga]

Ya, but it is hard to believe that any party had more directly elected than their percentage share given that two parties didn't make the cut, unless it is the percentage of only those parties that make the cut

I believe Stoiber and Schröder each are getting 3 overhang mandates.

[RobFromGa]

Hold on a minute, I think I found three more seats...

[PoisedWoman]

thanks for the map. It explains everything at a glance. The commies are voting for commies. Period.

[Torie]

There must be a lot more seats than are on your map then.

[eabinga]

There must be a lot more seats than are on your map then.

299 districts for 598 seats

[Torie]

So there are 2 seats in each district? How does that work?

[marajade]

I'm sorry but my original post about how its goofy still stands...

[Dog]

So Stroiber is losing this by 1 seat???....unreal.

[marajade]

You know I really don't get how it all works...

Your first vote is for direct representation and your second vote is for a list of candidates provided by the party and they don't have to be the same...

So I guess comparing it to us you could vote for a Democrat at the local level but decide that party you want to win is Republican...

I just don't get it at all...

[eabinga]

So there are 2 seats in each district? How does that work?

No, there is one seat per district.

But there are the same amount of seats allocated for indirect votes.

Each German get 2 votes. With his first vote, he votes for a candidate in his district. The one with the most votes wins and gets a seat.

With his second vote, he votes for a party. The party has a list with candidates on it. Lets say one party gets 10% of the votes, that means that party gets 10% of the remaining 299 seats. (about 29 seats, there are rules on how decimals are handled), so the first 29 candidates on the party's list get a seat also.

[Dog]

With his second vote, he votes for a party. The party has a list with candidates on it. Lets say one party gets 10% of the votes, that means that party gets 10% of the remaining 299 seats. (about 29 seats, there are rules on how decimals are handled), so the first 29 candidates on the party's list get a seat also.

Mind blowing stuff!