Videotape of Florida Detainees at Tollboth hits airwaves.

[Stu Cohen]

They just showed the toll booth tapes of the Florida detainees on television.

According to the newscaster, both cars stopped, and paid the attendant. The tapes show them doing exactly this.

I'm not sure what to make of it, but the media is putting the tollbooth tapes into heavy rotation.

[weegee]

Details have been misreported in the students' case but they have also been misreported in Ms. Stone's case.

It was reported that she claimed that they spoke in arabic.

It was reported that she wrote down the information using her son's crayons.

It was reported that she was a waitress at Shoney's (her son is 18).

The students alledged that she "added some salt and pepper" to her story.

She was called a racist by the students' families and by posters on FR. (She reportedly has housed a middle eastern foreign exchange student).

[weegee]

It's still unclear why the toll booth operator charged both drivers. She was on alert to keep a look out for these drivers and may have been nervous. Charging both cars (part or all of the toll) is more than just a faulty "eye-witness".

She reportedly signaled to law enforcement (with a wave) that one of the cars they were watching for was at the gate.

The driver was followed for several miles before he was stopped. The law enforcement officer did not need the traffic incident as a reason to stop the driver. Running a toll gate is not a justifiable offense to be arrested or hauled in for questoning. The tags (which at the time appeared to be registered to another vehicle) were another matter which was also quickly sorted out.

[weegee]

CDC cannot even keep track of the outbreaks of AIDS/HIV, INS won't account for illegal immigrants or expired visas anymore, what makes you think that people would register their nationality to be voluntarily "watched"?

[Consort]

An ant-Jeb Bush, anti-TIPS liberal media ploy.

[weegee]

Sounds like you're ready to call up Alec Baldwin to start stoning Ms. Stone and her family to death. She did hear several parts of the conversation accurately. If she made up the tale, you must believe that she maliciously "added some salt and pepper" to her story as the students initially (but no longer) claim.

If she was as hostile to middle easterners as you seem to believe, she sure waited a long time before crying wolf. She didn't even need to take down a license plate if she just wanted to pretend to be a "hero", she could have made up a description of a vehicle and turned in no (or a partial) plate number.

[weegee]

Not to make any assertions about the 3 students, but there are some followers of Islam that hold that it is no lie to tell falsehoods to non-believers or "misbelievers" of the Bible (Jews and Christians).

You can even go to sites like Ask the Imam to see examples defending such practices.

Ask The Imam also holds the position that the oath of loyalty that one takes when one becomes an American citizen is not an Islamic oath and therefore does not need to be upheld.

I do not believe that all muslims feel this way and allow that muslims who do not want to take up arms against a muslim nation can sit the war out as conscientious objectors (on religious grounds), but when some of the theological leaders of their religion state that they are to take up arms against the enemies of Islam in support of their muslim brothers, allegience can come into question.

[weegee]

The toll booth operator was a minority woman. Do you have something against white people as you posted in bold face?

[weegee]

I've wondered if the toll booth operator was pressured into making such a statement. She collected a toll from both drivers and her bank would be off at the end of the night. She should also have been given opportunity to review the tape herself before committing to a statement if she was unsure.

If she was pressured into making such a statement, then she can be held accountable. It makes no sense for her to have billed both cars for the first driver (unless she was just agreeing with anything that the second driver said).

[weegee]

In my entire life I have had about 5 times where I had direct personal knowledge of a media story/event. Zero times did the media ever get the story correct. Not once.

Here here. I've said the same thing. The media is quick to run with breaking "facts" because it allows them to flesh out the story but as one network reveals a detail the others pick it up so that they aren't dispensing old news or too few details (accuracy be damned).

Why did ya'll ever believe it hook, line, and sinker in the first place?

Actually the FR threads were a place to corroborate details and eliminate others. There were parties on both sides of the issue (attackers of the students and attackers of Ms. Stone). The attacks of Ms. Stone have felt more justified in their attacks (and there are still several posters on this FR thread alledging she is a racist). Nothing that has come out has dispelled the notion of what she believes she overheard.

[weegee]

One of the men was born here, the other 2 immigrated (at last report, I believe that their lawyer asserts that they are all citizen but it was had been previously reported that one of the men was on a visa).

[weegee]

The other thing to remember about Atta was that he bragged in English in vague terms about something big coming in the next few days (as he disparaged America).

Some disbelieved that the Shoney's conversation could be a genuine threat because the men would not discuss such matters in English.

[LowOiL]

I think you'd like the following opinion from Peggy Noonan: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/753975/posts

Great link, thanks for sharing it. I missed it the first go around.

[justsomedude]

I believe this whole thing was orchestrated to send a message that anyone who tries to be vigilant in spotting terrorists will be made a pariah....

Yes, and don't forget the incredible propaganda for toll-paying.

[Momma Lou]

What I've heard is one was born in Chicago, one is naturalized and one is on a student visa. Also, that they have gotten diplomas from a Caribbean island diploma mill. The med schools in that area are used by students that have more money that brains. They couldn't get accepted into a legitimate school in the states. Losers all around!

[2rightsleftcoast]

That's right.

[Momma Lou]

Is it out of the realm of possibilities that the video taken at the toll booth is not legitimate? How difficult would it be to make another tape? Are the Florida folks so afraid of getting sued by CAIR that they will do just about anything to make this whole mess just go away? And what were the three doing for the missing hours. Stopping to give their regards to Sami whats-his-name?

[weegee]

One of the men (not "children" as they've been called in some reports) was from Missouri and a name check on Google indicates that he attended some university studies there.

I've read some mention in the threads about the diploma mill allegation. I will say this, I've read a number of reports but did not ever find a description of both cars (one was identified as a "Honda" and that is all that I've seen). For all of the details that were reported repeatedly (correct or wrong) there was a lot of basic information that never came out. There was also a claim that 400 cars pulled them over. I never saw footage but I think that the number was scaled down to 1 car (initally) and then a few more.

I was unable to get the video link to work (the javascript on the NBC webpage is not working for me and I couldn't find the video on another site).

Is there video of the police detonating something from the mens' trunk? A Florida paper article that served to dispell a number of the charges mentioned that the police did not detonate a bag containing blasting caps but it was unclear from the reference if anything was detonated.

Some people have posted that they saw such footage "live" as the story was breaking (did the media broadcast live from the scene of the arrest? How soon did they get there?)

There are people who were certain that the JFK assassination footage ran over and over on the day that JFK was shot but the Zapruder film was not broadcast on tv until 1975 by Geraldo Rivera. Sequential frames from the film did appear in Life magazine (as they originally purchased the film from Mr. Zapruder).

[weegee]

I have not seen the video, all I've seen is a postage stamp sized thumbnail of one frame. I thought that manned toll booths had toll gates to prevent toll runners.

This one appeared to have no such gate so the first driver was free to go.

He may have paid only 50 cents and said to collect the rest from the other driver. He may have paid 1.50. He may have pointed to the toll operator and said, I don't have any money, get it from the next car.

The drivers both talked on cell phone. It is unclear if one of the 2 drivers called the other in response to a police officer leaving the shoulder (siren/flashing lights were not on as I understand it). Since the second driver asked if the first driver paid his toll, it gives credence that the 2 drivers discussed this at some point (before or after the second driver approached the toll gate).

As I say, we don't even know these details. Maybe it is none of our business. Eunice Stone's name certainly is none of our business but she found the national media camped out on her lawn asking questions (which is why she went to Fox).

I have not even credibly read that the men were charged (with a signed ticket) with running the toll (the second driver had a receipt showing a proof of payment for both cars).

[Eastbound]

Thanks for the info, weegee. To be honest, the reason I asked is because I wanted an idea of their level of acculturation to values all Americans share in common.. If this was indeed a prank, I can't visualize a Citizen by birth finding humor in a stupid tease like that, regardless of their ethnic origin -- especially during these times.