Posted on 09/15/2002 6:38:08 AM PDT by The Wizard
Brit Hume just ended the elected career of this weaseling mealy nmouth politician......and he can take all the yellow spined lying democrats with him
HorseHillary! They are only conventional infantry recon teams,and the military version of a SWAT team. It's blindingly obvious you either don't even know what "Special Forces" are,despite stories about them being all over the news,or you do know and envy them to the point where you pretend to be them. I can only conclude you don't think being a Marine is "enough". Why are you being so disrespectful of your fellow Marines?
Really? That must be why they aren't a part of the Joint Special Operations Command,like the Army SF,the Navy SEALS,and the AF PJ's and Commandoes,huh? It's probably also why the USMC is now planning and organizing a force that WILL be a part of JSOC too,huh? Ah,yes. That wacky USMC! Every man is a "Special Forces/Special Operations" member,despite being THE most conventional unit is existence! Hoodathunkit?
No comment.
"They are only conventional infantry recon teams,and the military version of a SWAT team."
Oi...ignorance is bliss. Marine Corps Battalions already have their own recon units. Marine Force Recon is not conventional.
"It's blindingly obvious you either don't even know what "Special Forces" are,despite stories about them being all over the news"
Ugh...sorry Pops but my knowledge of Marine Corps SpecFor comes from knowing...and apparently...unlike you....not reading about them in the media.
"or you do know and envy them to the point where you pretend to be them. I can only conclude you don't think being a Marine is "enough". Why are you being so disrespectful of your fellow Marines?"
Nice try Gramps.
"That must be why they aren't a part of the Joint Special Operations Command,like the Army SF,the Navy SEALS,and the AF PJ's and Commandoes,huh?"
Sorry...I didnt know that the qualification required you to first be in the club.
"It's probably also why the USMC is now planning and organizing a force that WILL be a part of JSOC too,huh?"
You poor old Man...it looks as though you qualify only units under JSOC as being Special Forces. That is your error. the US Navy SEALS do not fall under JSOC command. Are they not Special Forces either? JSOC's own mission statement is to be a unified command structure for conducting joint special operations and exercises.
Now if you can find me another definition of JSOC that JSOC puts out....please....show me. ~grin~
JSCO directly commands:
Delta
ISA
DEVGRU Seal Team Six only NOT ALL NAVY SEALS
The 24th STS
Joint Communications Unit
One joint aviation unit One technical intelligence unit
75th Ranger Regiment DOES THIS MEAN ALL OTHER RANGERS ARENT SPECIAL FORCES?
160th SOAR, primarily the 1st Bn. with its "Little Bird" helicopters
USAF SOS's, especially the 55th and their MC-130 squadrons.
Is it your assertion than only those untis are to be designated "Special Forces"?
I told you I'd eat you for breakfast.
"Every man is a "Special Operations" member"
No, only MEU/SOC Members.
Connie Mack really screwed the GOP by retiring, he would have been there forever as well.
Are the 19th Special Forces Group to be considered Special Forces?
How about US Army Green Berets?
US Army Long Range Surveillance Units?
What about all other Navy Seal units?
Are none of them Special Forces?
None of them are under JSOC command.
So that trumps your JSOC command arguement. Regular Marine Corps Battalion's have their own Recon so that trumps your argument that Marine Recon is somehow defined as conventional.
What of Marine Corps FAST company? Is that attached to any conventional units? Are they not tasks directly with Anti-terrorism?
Deep Reconnaissance
In Extremis Hostage Rescue in an urban environment
Special Demolition Operations
Clandestine Recovery of Personnel and Equipment
GOPLAT Operations
Clandestine Reconnaissance and Surveillance
Direct Action and CQB
Maritime Interdiction Operations
Ahhh but...like the Green Berets, Navy Seals and Marine FAST Units they dont fall under JSOC so they arent Special Forces.
Get the picture Pops?
Your definition of Special Forces is both ill informed and ultimately outdated.
You should know. If all the ignorant ever get together to elect a king,you're the sure winner.
Marine Corps Battalions already have their own recon units. Marine Force Recon is not conventional.
Are you REALLY so stupid you can't tell the difference between conventional and unconventional warfare? Never mind. The answer to this question is obvious.
Ugh...sorry Pops but my knowledge of Marine Corps SpecFor comes from knowing...and apparently...unlike you....not reading about them in the media.
You not only don't know anything,you don't even suspect anything. You are just a snotnosed little punk wannabe poser.
You poor old Man...it looks as though you qualify only units under JSOC as being Special Forces.
I'm going to type this slowly enough that MAYBE even you can understand it. The ONLY people who are "Special Forces" are members of the US Army unit that oddly enough is NAMED "Special Forces". Find some 8 year old that has enough patience to explain this to you.
That is your error. the US Navy SEALS do not fall under JSOC command. Are they not Special Forces either?
NO,they are NOT "Special Forces". They are SEALS. I know you are a special education grad (giving you the benefit of the doubt),but SEALS are members of the US Navy. I've pinged a couple of SEALS to come to this thread and try to explain this to you.
Now if you can find me another definition of JSOC that JSOC puts out....please....show me. ~grin~
The JSOC explanation is plain enough for most people,but you seem to have trouble understanding it. It says "Joint SPECIAL OPERATIONS Command". It does NOT say "Joint Special Forces Command". Special Forces are just one unit under JSOC. Notice how NO USMC units are presently under the JSOC? Why do YOU think this is?
JSCO directly commands: Delta
ISA
DEVGRU Seal Team Six only NOT ALL NAVY SEALS
The 24th STS
Joint Communications Unit
One joint aviation unit One technical intelligence unit
75th Ranger Regiment DOES THIS MEAN ALL OTHER RANGERS ARENT SPECIAL FORCES?
Not only that,but it means THOSE Rangers aren't "Special Forces,you idiot! They are RANGERS!
Is it your assertion than only those untis are to be designated "Special Forces"?
No. It is my "assertion" that ONLY US Army Special Forces soldiers are "Special Forces" soldiers.
I told you I'd eat you for breakfast.
Are you a professional fool,or is this only a hobby?
No, only MEU/SOC Members.
You can call them Buicks if you want,but that doesn't mean you can drive them to work. There is no more conventional unit on the face of the earth than the USMC.
Since you are so obsessed with wanting people to think you are "Special Forces",why not get out of the USMC and enlist in the army for Special Forces training? It only takes a 6 year enlistment,providing you can pass all the tests. Something which I seriously doubt. They won't even let you take the test unless you have a GT score of 110 or higher,and you are clearly in the "Kennedy family" IQ bracket.
As a alternative,if being in "Special Operations" is good enough for you,you could always volunteer for USMC Force Recon,and then volunteer for the new Special Operations unit the USMC is now forming. I seriously doubt you would make that,either. All of the Force Recon people I ever met were VERY bright guys,and the new Special Operations USMC unit is even going to be picky about which Force Recon Marines they accept. Not that this is anything that will ever concern you.
Just exactly what unit do you think the "Green Berets" come from? Get the picture Pops?
Oh,I get the picture all right,puppy. You are a wannabe.
Your definition of Special Forces is both ill informed and ultimately outdated.
"Ill informed and outdated"????? ROFLMAO!
Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown
I'm not exactly sure how that works,but I THINK that other than ST-6,the others remain under the commands of the Naval commander in their district for normal purposes,but are in reserve to be called up under JSOC at any time. None the less,I need you to tell this guy who "knows it all" that no matter if they come under JSOC or not,they are NOT "Special Forces". They are SEALS,period. They were SEALS before they went to JSOC,and they are SEALS now. This guy doesn't seem to know or accept that there is a difference between "Special Forces" and "Special Operations".
That command includes Army Special Forces some USAF units besides the PJ and Commandos.
I know. It also has some support units that aren't even combat arms troops.
When I took my jump training out detachment took great pride in the fact that the tape played in the chow hall while we there was a Navy Band tape instead of Barry Sadler even though it would have been a full court martial offense to be caught entering the Mess Hall after hours to swith the records.
Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - yorktown
Really? I didn't know that. I went through jump school with guys from UDT-34 and UDT-35 in the spring of 64. Were you ever on either of those teams?
When I got my parachute training the Army Special Forces guys thought we were nuts.
I never COULD figure out why a guy interested in ground combat would join the Navy. It's like a guy who wants to work on boats joining the army.
No offence intended but I would be as offended at being called part of Special Forces
Of course you would. Just like a member of Force Recon would be offended by being called either SF or a SEAL. Each unit has a right to be proud of what they do and who they are,and they don't need to "borrow" anybody else's "glory". Even implying that they do is insulting.
As to how the current naval command structure interfaces with JSOC I have no real understanding as I am long out of active service and not a member of the reserves.
I know a couple of the guys who work there casually,but have never bothered to ask them. I'm not GOING to ask them,either. None the less,I THINK this is one of those deals where the joint command takes precedence over all local commands,and they can pretty much draft anybody they want,anytime they want them for TDY duty,without their local commanders having anything to say beyond "Yes Sir!"
suffice to say after reviewing the discussion on these threads I think we have a wannabe who does not understand the nuances between conventional warfare and unconventional warfare.
I think so,too. What we need is for one of the FR Marines to show up and bust his chops. I've paged one of them with this post.Most likely he remembers who the Force Recon FR posters are,and he might invite them over for a look-see.
SEALs are Naval Special warfare, and regardless of which bureaucratic pigeonhole the Pentagon puts them (or devgru/ST6) in this year, they are all special ops forcess, that is they practice and conduct kidnappings on foreign soil, strategic reconaissance, etc.
Every swinging d!ck on a Marine ARG is now called (by themselves, the USMC) "Special Operations Capable", including I guess the cooks and clerks. This is a big joke, a way for the Marines to pat themselves on the back and try to be be players in the exciting new high visibility game of specops. Having a few units fast rope and practice CQB before going on an ARG does NOT make the MEU "special operations forces."
Do the Marines have fine units such as Force Recon? Yes they do. But they have until today only supported the Marine division they are attached to directly, and have not been grouped with US special operation forces. Are they good enough to? Of course. Much of this is just Pentagonese mumbo jumbo, and USMC love-hate fetish with "elite" units within the USMC.
Now USMC Battalion Recon, that's way down the list. Those boys are kids, with hardly more gear or training than the average grunt marine.
**********************************************
Now the main reason I'm pissed at your attitude is that whatever semantics BS you want to argue about unit names and titles, you should at least treat someone with more cross border MACSOG time than anyone you'll ever meet with some respect. Saying you're going to kick the ass of an "old man" is a lot of crap, when that old man has killed more NVA at eyeball range than you have been in fistfights in your life, and when many of that old man's buddies left body parts and lives over there so that you can run your young smart mouth freely here on FR.
Rant over.
A lot of the USMC SOF vs "special operations capable" (their term) issue has to be understood in the context of the USMC's traditional distaste for elite units, or "an elite within an elite". Since "every Marine is an elite troop", Marine brass has always looked with a jaundiced eye upon "special" Marine units getting better gear and training than the rest. "All my Marines can do recon, why should those prima donnas get better weapons and gear than the rest" has been a common sentiment among USMC senior officers who did not spend any time with Marine batt or force recon. Marine Recon has always formerly been a "red headed stepchild" using gear the SEALs would have tossed out decades ago. This is changing, but it takes time and must overcome resistance.
Okay grampas you win.
Only the Green Berets are Special Forces.
~grin~
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.