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To: kcvl; Siobhan
Lying to protect oneself is an essential tenet of Islam called "Taqiyah".

Here's a reference on it from http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/shia_education/shia/12.htm :

One of the most misunderstood aspects of Shi'ism is the practice of dissimulation or taqiyah. With the. wider meaning of taqiyah. "to avoid or shun any kind of danger," we are not concerned here. Rather, our aim is to discuss that kind of taqiyah in which a man hides his religion or certain of his religious practices in situations that would cause definite or probable danger as a result of the actions of those who are opposed to his religion or particular religious practices.

Among followers of the different schools of Islam, Shi'ites are well known for their practice of taqiyah. In case of danger they dissimulate their religion and hide their particular religious and ritual practices from their opponents.

Many here have been asking themselves "How could Muslims possibly believe the obvious falsehoods that are coming out of their mouths". Quick answer: they don't. It is part of Islamic doctrine that, when faced with a situation where telling the truth would work against Islam or fellow Muslims, YOU LIE. You tell whatever story seems most likely to work to your advantage
168 posted on 09/15/2002 9:24:53 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: SauronOfMordor; kcvl; Siobhan
More on al taqiyah:

Lying today

Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible."

(Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745) Note that Al-Ghazali is one of the most famous and respected Muslim theologians of all time.

171 posted on 09/15/2002 9:47:30 AM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: SauronOfMordor; kcvl; Siobhan
Many here have been asking themselves "How could Muslims possibly believe the obvious falsehoods that are coming out of their mouths". Quick answer: they don't. It is part of Islamic doctrine that, when faced with a situation where telling the truth would work against Islam or fellow Muslims, YOU LIE. You tell whatever story seems most likely to work to your advantage.

That's exactly what's going on. And we must realize that all these moslems who come on talk shows and tell us things aren't as they seem, are lying to us.

I was reading another interesting quote which I'll post that the only moslems you can believe when they talk about the true nature of islam are the most radical ones, because they aren't the ones lying. All the others are.

So we (the infidels) are being duped every time we believe anything that comes out of their mouths. They are furthering their goals, and doing so by lying, which is considered a good work if it spreads islam.

173 posted on 09/15/2002 9:54:36 AM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: SauronOfMordor; kcvl; Siobhan
link to more on Al-taqiyya from The Koran and the Bible

< snip >

"It should be noted that I have read on some Muslim sites that a few more fundamental Muslim sites do not commit dissimulation, are open about the warrior mentality of Islam, and are proud that they do not dissemble or lie. But my understanding is that this is only the most "radical" or orthodox Muslims. It seems that the vast majority of Muslims are actually proud that they do dissemble or lie.

"The problem is, how can you tell which ones are not lying to you if you don't know the Koran and Islam? Basically, you can't believe the few because of the many. It is my opinion that the only Muslims a non-Muslim can believe about anything are the fundamentalist Muslims who openly admit that Islam is a warrior religion and that they are required to destroy all non-Muslims. Even then, we need to be careful."

< snip >

177 posted on 09/15/2002 10:04:53 AM PDT by texasbluebell
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