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Whether or not we attack Iraq, we must secure our borders.
1 posted on 09/11/2002 6:05:31 AM PDT by Clinton Is Scum
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To: Clinton Is Scum
We need to attack Iraq and secure our borders, post haste.
2 posted on 09/11/2002 6:12:14 AM PDT by tomahawk
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To: Clinton Is Scum; 4ConservativeJustices; billbears
See, Slick Willy ruined our military and sold us out to Red China to line the dims coffers, leaving us defenseless against Red China, should we blow our wad against Iraq. And taxes will have to go up to foot the bill...
3 posted on 09/11/2002 6:16:08 AM PDT by Ff--150
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To: Clinton Is Scum
" But Israel has been demonstrating clout for decades and is still engulfed by terrorism. "

Actually, now that Israel has been allowed to fight back, some claim Hamas is 98% decimated as a military force, and is debating an end to terrorism as a way to save what's left of their political viability. But thanks for bringing up the Israeli model for us.

4 posted on 09/11/2002 6:26:36 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: Clinton Is Scum
"If the United States is to adopt the Roman approach of overthrowing enemies before they arise, the it should focus on China"

There's no firm evidence that China is involved in terrorism, much less 9/11, and there's no 10-year-old cease fire that they broke to justify our "resumption of hostilities".

Also we have to learn to walk before we can run.

7 posted on 09/11/2002 6:34:10 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: Clinton Is Scum
"… the ratio of left-wing to conservative professors in a number of universities…. And some people think the problem is in Iraq? "

The author's meatheads are dishonest. Any one of us could come up with a list of a dozen or more social problems that we could say must be solved before attacking Iraq, or doing anything else.

8 posted on 09/11/2002 6:41:04 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: Clinton Is Scum; Victoria Delsoul; harpseal; Travis McGee; MaeWest; Snow Bunny; onyx; ...
Whether or not we attack Iraq, we must secure our borders.

We must do both.

Roberts is correct when he points out the bipartisan failures of the Bush Adminstration to secure our borders in the last year. He is wrong with regard to his understanding of the Moslem mind when he states:

"The terrorist threat comes from radical Islam. Saddam Hussein runs a secular state. Would overthrowing a secular ruler help or harm radical Islam?"

Saddam is secular, as far as other Moslems are concerned, only until he is confronted by a Jew or a Christian. Then he is transformed into the purest acolyte of his "anscestor" Mohammed, standard-bearer of Allah, and would-be liberator of Jerusalem-- just like his fellow Tikrit hometown Idol, Saladin. Nevermind that Saladin was a Kurd or that Hussein is not a descendent of Mohammed or that Mohammed never went to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem: facts are not important to Islam.

Further, for Roberts to suggest that the terrorist threat doesn't come, at least in part, from Saddam, is nonsense. Hussein was definitely behind the 1993 WTC bombing and has definitely been funding the families of "palestinian" homicide bombers. Then there are the links to OKC and Al Qaeda.

Does anyone doubt that Hussein would provide WMDs to terrorists if it suited him?

We have no choice but to secure our borders and destroy the Stalinist Moslem state of Iraq.




9 posted on 09/11/2002 7:18:54 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Clinton Is Scum
Iraq is not the root problem. SAUDI ARABIA is.
10 posted on 09/11/2002 7:21:16 AM PDT by fogarty
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To: Clinton Is Scum
"Wars have unintended consequences. Would an American invasion of an Arab country further radicalize the Islamic world, leading to the rise of unfriendly governments in Pakistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia? Would the United States then have to invade a hostile Pakistan because of its nuclear weapons?"

So does inaction! Appeasement didn't work with Hitler, and it won't work with Saddam. Saddam wants to be the top dog in the Arab world. What better way to accomplish this goal, than with a big strike in the American heartland? We ignore Saddam at our own peril!!

14 posted on 09/11/2002 7:30:24 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Clinton Is Scum
Finger pointing at university faculty members is a superficial, easy and wrong. A vibrant and energetic atmosphere of public issue debate, discussion and controversy is one of the underpinnings of our free society.

Societies that have constructed well ordered, compliant and non-controversial faculties no doubt enjoyed well trained, vis-a-vis well educated, youths in scientific and vocational arts. Doubtless too, those societies have developed innovative machines of war. But in their historic rush to organize and project a single-focused, dissent-free populace they have, without exception, become oppressive inwardly and sought to impose their will on neighboring countries. And, in their Orwellian type pursuit of societal uniformity, they have been successful beyond all measure in suppressing discussion that is deemed contrary to the public interest, dissent from public policies and the entire spectrum of what we value dearly as personal and political freedoms.

No, college professors who express radical, and frequently abjectly stupid views (eg: the fellow from U. of Texas is a classic example) are not the problem. While they are troublesome in the sense that it is patently obvious to everyone else that their bizarre views are just that, they are both harmless and, at the same time form a contrast agaisnt which more prevalent, rational and nationally appropriate views can be disseminated. I consider them and their willingness to speak out with unpopular dissenting views as the quintessential illustration of the value and power of our Bill of Rights.

As the age-old maxim says: (to paraphrase--)"I disagree with those dissenting idiots but spent 31 years of my life defending their right to express their views, and would happily do so again if given the opportunity."

Moreover, to label professors, or others for that matter, with whom we disagree as "wild-eyed liberals," "the biased main-stream media" (whatever the hell that is), or some equally conversation stopping, pejorative term is meaningless. It merely demonstrates that, like Herr Limbaugh and his clones, there is a decided paucity of educated understanding, tolerance for contrary views that may make us ponder, or the ability to articulate rational, meaningful and cogent thoughts.

As the U.S. Supreme Court has said many times when dealing with governmental acts intended to stifle wildly unpopular thought and expressions, the response to dissent is not suppression or enforced conformity rather, it is more expression and more thought.

It is not merely simplistic to observe that the favored political view today by which a majority is able to overcome a college professor's outlandish dissent by perhaps getting him fired or otherwised officially silenced may tomorrow become itself disfavored and be the subject of the next generation's transient majority's oppressive force to be silenced.

21 posted on 09/11/2002 8:12:28 AM PDT by middie
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To: Clinton Is Scum; rdb3
And some people think the problem is in Iraq?

The problem IS in Iraq...and Iran...and Saudia Arabia...and Indonesia...and New York...

The problem is Islam.

God will not be mocked.

25 posted on 09/11/2002 8:23:05 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: Clinton Is Scum
Eye Rack Sucks !!! . So does our Boarder Patrol !!!
30 posted on 09/11/2002 9:36:41 AM PDT by GeekDejure
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To: Clinton Is Scum
"No doubt Saddam Hussein bears the United States ill will, and he may be acquiring weapons of mass destruction. Nevertheless, is the level of threat to the United States from a country of 23 million relatively poor and uneducated people blown out of proportion?"

Does this fellow not understand that Saddam is every bit as evil and ambitious as Hitler was? Saddam is crazy, he is a meglomaniac. Even if he doesn't have ballistic missiles with the capability to reach us, he will eventually, and in the mean time so will Iran, Lybia, Syria, et al. What? Does he want to wait for a co-ordinated strike from them? What possible connection does their being a populace of poor, uneducated people have to do with anything? It is the government in all these countries that must be looked at, not the populace.

Even if they all only have medium range missiles, this puts not only Israel, but Europe at risk. And even though Europe is completely worthless and without any redeeming qualities, it is not in our best interest to see them leveled, and we sure won't hold still for Britian being in danger. These cowards, and liberals, need to take a sedative until this is all over, they don't have the nerve to even defend themselves, nor the survial instincts of a fruit fly. "Poor uneducated populace", good grief at the lame stupidity and flawed logic.

32 posted on 09/11/2002 1:41:12 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Clinton Is Scum
Can a patriot have misgivings about attacking Iraq? Is opposition limited to peaceniks and American-hating multiculturalists?
No there is the UN supporting business elite (GHW Bush's staff, Sen Hagel, Colin Powell...), and isolationists on the right.

Wars have unintended consequences. Would an American invasion of an Arab country further radicalize the Islamic world, leading to the rise of unfriendly governments in Pakistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia? Would the United States then have to invade a hostile Pakistan because of its nuclear weapons?
Pakistan? Didn't people claim Us action in Afghanistan woukld cause an Islamist revolt in Pakistan? Instead, teh ISI is being cleaned up and Musharaf is more in control.
Egypt is not all that friendly. For the past 20 years it has been one bullet away from an Islamist Republic. In otherwords, no change.
Teh Saudis are not our allies. They are a Whahabist regime and are exporting terrorism. At worst we would get a new regime that openly does this. On teh other hand, we could create a democratic Iraq and help clean up the whole region.

The terrorist threat comes from radical Islam. Saddam Hussein runs a secular state. Would overthrowing a secular ruler help or harm radical Islam?
Assertion not based on evidence. Syria is a secular state run by a Ba'athist party. It harbors terrorist and allows Hizbullah to exist.
Iraq is a Ba'athist (Arab National Socialist) regime which has worked with and continues to work with terrorists. There is evidence linking them to the 1993 WTC attack, if not the one last September.

An American attack on Iraq would cause a loss of sympathy among our European allies. Would a more isolated America receive the same cooperation in the battle against terror?
Our allies already don't sympathise with us. They are doing a poor job of cleaning up Islamism in their countries. Even the UK is allowing an Islamist celebration of September 11th.
At any rate, the EU and socialist governments are teh problems, not opposition to Us action in Iraq. PCR is grasping at straws.

War hawks believe that a demonstration of U.S. military clout would improve the Middle Eastern situation. But Israel has been demonstrating clout for decades and is still engulfed by terrorism.
1. If we install a new government in Iraq and help overthrow Iran, you better believe we will have clout.
2. Israel is in the middle east surrounded by states trying to destroy it. Teh analogy doesn't work. Besides, Israel is doing quite nicely, with Hamas all but suing for peace.

No doubt Saddam Hussein bears the United States ill will, and he may be acquiring weapons of mass destruction. Nevertheless, is the level of threat to the United States from a country of 23 million relatively poor and uneducated people blown out of proportion?
1. Iraq is actually fairly well educated adn cosmopoliotan.
2. How much of a threat was Germany in 1934?

If the United States is to adopt the Roman approach of overthrowing enemies before they arise, the it should focus on China, a much greater potential threat. Ambitious China has the world's largest population and weapons of mass destruction. The Clinton administration gave China the missile technology required to reach American cities. U.S. firms, seeking lower costs, are building up China's high-tech industrial capacity.
China is a long term propblem. WE cannot invade and take them out. Iraq and the Islamists are an ACUTE problem, which we can and must deal with now.

Sound arguments can be made that the focus on Iraq is preventing more serious vulnerabilities from being addressed. Terrorists abroad do us less damage than the terrorists allowed into our country by our open-borders policy.
Bush has no desire to fight this battle. It isn't that he is wasting energy, it is that he would overwise be spending it on trying to get amnesties for illegals.

Can a country conduct a war on terror when it cannot control its own borders? Does it make sense for a country that refuses to defend its own borders to invade another country?
If we refuse to prevent terrorism at home, shouldn't we at least stop it at its source?

The United States may be in more danger from the extraordinary imbalance in the political and ideological commitments of its university faculties than it is from Saddam Hussein. Time and age will destroy Hussein. But university faculties are self-selecting and self-perpetuating, and these faculties are overwhelmingly hostile to traditional American values and any political party that stands for these values.
True but irellevent.

This has to be the stupidest thing PCR has ever written. He fails to make a case and contradicts point he admitted in previous article. He is letting ideology blind him to reality. AS Russel Kirk would say, this is not a conservative thing to do.

33 posted on 09/11/2002 2:34:23 PM PDT by rmlew
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