Pope Asks God to Show Mercy on Sept. 11 Attackers

Reuters via iWon.com ^ | Sept 11, 2002 | Philip Pullella

[realpatriot71]

You Sola Scriptura people are in the minority.

Sadly this is true and this is why God, will some day, tell many people who thought they were serving God, "I never knew you". Those who take the time to use their God-given minds and think and look for themselves, with REAL prayer, to search and discover the Truths that God will reveal, if they only look!, these people soon join "the minority".

[smoking camels]

thanks. now another question. because no matter what I think truth is truth...

where is it documented where St. Peter passed on this "charge"?

[cake_crumb]

"As a cradle Catholic who grew up in the deep South, I have a tendency to take the bashing in stride."

WOW, YOU must have had an EXTREMELY rough childhood down there. (There aren't many Baptist churches up here, so the Pentacostals fill the gap.)

Today, OF ALL DAYS, we who's right to worship our God is under attack, ought to stand together a little better. This is embarrassing and disappointing.

[justsomedude]

In what way is it helpful?

For starters, he's doing what he's supposed to do. If everyone did that, why, 091101 might just be another square on the calendar.

Are you suggesting that because of the Pope's prayers, God may forgive the terrorists, even though the terrorists themselves died defiant and rejecting the one true God?

I am not suggesting anything. I do suspect that you are barking up the wrong tree. What I said is what I said.

[agrace]

And it seems we've arrived full circle - you feel he is doing what he is supposed to do - pray for the dead - while I don't even consider that scriptural. Besides that, I still don't see the merit in praying for those dead who refused to seek forgiveness for themselves. But, agreeing to disagree. Have a great afternoon. :)

[agrace]

You seem to imply that only priests can glean a thorough equipping from scripture. That's a shame.

With regard to the OT vs the NT, I fail to understand what that has to do with my original train of thought. With that in mind, however, the verse in Timothy most certainly COULD be referring to the whole of scripture as we know it today - since when is God bound by the limits of time? HE knew what would become canon and could very well have divinely inspired Paul to write this with the whole of scripture in mind.

Anyway, hope you have a great afternoon and thanks for the response.

[Commie Basher]

Oh Please!!! I'm so sick of the political correctness and *understanding* crap.

What political correctness? This is true Christianity, as I recall it being taught to me in Catholic school. And from reading Christ's words, the Pope seems to have got it right.

It must really bug some "Christian conservatives" to know that Jesus was a "turn the cheek" kind of guy.

[SoothingDave]

since when is God bound by the limits of time?

Exactly. So today we can pray for someone who died last year. A prayer that God will show mercy on them by giving them the gift of repentence before they died. To flatly say that we can not pray today for someone who died yesterday is to say that it is too "late" for God to do anything about it -- that God is constrained by time.

SD

[onedoug]

God, keep account.

[al_c]

Let's not forget something Jesus taught us. In the Lord's Prayer (the Our Father) we say "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

If we don't forgive, how can we expect forgiveness for our sins?

[Puddleglum]

Rebelbase wrote:

I have no idea what you are rambling about.

Hi Rebelbase,

No rambling here. I hope you are not getting cross! Maybe I can be a little more explicit.

What I am saying is that that language and the Bible have to be taught, and that both Protestants and Catholics trust a great chain of teachers to arrive at the meanings they believe in - from basic English teachers to translators on down through the ages, to men who decided which books of the Bible were canonical and which were not, when to use the word "wine" and when to use the word "grape juice" when setting down the scriptures, etc.

History helps us understand the Bible and the Bible helps us understand history; Thus St. Augustine taught us to interpret the Old Testmament in the light of the Gospel (type and antetype relationship), for nothing in the Bible is false but perhaps requires the context of the Gospel to be made explicit. For one source of the Catholic belief in prayers for the dead aside from the traditional of the Church, see II Machabees, xii, 40-46: "40 And they found under the coats o the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth the Jews: 90 that all plainly saw, for this cause they were slain. 41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. 42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. 43 And making a gathering, he twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, 44 (For if he had not hoped that the that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that the who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." Now if you still think I am rambling then I better just move along.

[cmak9]

Men must deserve salvation, they must work at it and live their lives accordingly

uh...I think the Apostle Paul might have disagreed with you. You might want to give that New Testament another read. Or not. It's up to you of course.

[DManA]

Kind of puts us in our place doesn't it?

we're not told everything. But everything we NEED to know is there.

[Orual]

Re: #132. That quote you referred to was part of an on-going discussion between another poster and me. You can't pull it out of the context of the entire dialogue and comment unless you read all the previous posts.

[Orual]

Sorry, I transposed the numbers. It was your post #312.

[Orual]

You might want to give that New Testament another read.

For your perusal: Romans 1

21 Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God or given thanks: but became vain in their thoughts. And their foolish heart was darkened.
22 For, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts and of creeping things.
24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient.
29 Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness: full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity: whisperers,
30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Foolish, dissolute: without affection, without fidelity, without mercy.
32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.

Anything here you don't understand?

[agrace]

Tell me something, why is it that it was too late for the rich man? Just because God is not confined by the constraints of time doesn't mean that we aren't. He set up a salvation plan for a reason. We must believe NOW. If everyone relied on the maybe of a second chance, what would that do to our witness here? Do you feel comfortable suggesting to people that there might be a chance for them later, especially if someone prays on their behalf? Is that what scripture really teaches?

[agrace]

Sure does. I hope we spend eternity learning what we don't know and marvelling over the scope of the plan, the things we didn't understand but just had to have faith over, the times we questioned God and His intentions. Boggles the mind.

[Pyro7480]

I think John Paul II is being ENTIRELY consistant in his message of God's Divine Mercy. We as imperfect humans cannot fathom the immense "ocean without a bottom" that is God's Mercy. I can't believe anyone hasn't cited and/or remembered this verse from Scripture, but this is probably what the Pope is basing his statement on.

Matthew Chapter 5 (Revised Standard Version)

[43] "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [45] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? [47] And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? [48] You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I read a comment on National Review.com's "The Corner" which was posted by Mike Potemra which better expresses where I'm coming from than I can myself.

JOHN PAUL II, RIGHT ON [Mike Potemra]

Pope John Paul II today prayed to God for forgiveness for the September 11 attackers, and in doing so offers us an opportunity to draw some very valuable moral distinctions. I, too, ask God to forgive the attackers, even as I ask Him to forgive my own sins. But that act of petition to God does not remove the hijackers--or their supporters, or their would-be imitators--from the arena of human justice, where their past evil acts must be punished, and their future evil plans thwarted. While seeking God's mercy for the terrorists, the Pope made clear that there can be no moral justification for their evil act: "No situation of hurt, no philosophy or religion can ever justify such a grave offense on human life and dignity." This is an important rebuke to those--whether on the right on the left--who believe America's foreign policy, or its system of freedom, was somehow to blame for September 11.
Posted 2:52 PM | [Link]

Personally, I can understand completely the feelings of people on both sides of this. I still feel A LOT of anger towards those who perpetuated the terror attacks on our country. But at the same time, Jesus calls me to be perfect, as the Father in heaven is perfect, which is also means They are calling us to be holy and to be merciful. We must answer this call to the best of our ability.

[Pyro7480]

Ping post #319.