Home Invader Thwarted

I'm quite confident that I've seen enough from both sides to get a sense for who is credible and who is not. I am very aware of the hardships imposed at various times on the Palestinians, the water and ag. issues, etc. Similar to the hardships imposed on southern Blacks in America. MLK's approach can be justified. Hamas/PLO/etc. cannot. And sorry, but I see no evidence of Israel wanting to destroy other nations. Perhaps anecdotally individuals will express that, it is simple human nature to want to get rid of whoever is calling for your death. But as a nation, no, Israel has never declared that it intended to drive another one into the sea. Unlike what its neighbors have declared.

As to Jenin, the original reports put out by the Palestinians was an organized massacre of around 50+ civilians. IIRC, the final count ended up being around 4 civilians and an equal number of Israeli army casualties. Quite a difference, and not one likely to be made as an innocent error. We all make mistakes, but the Palestinians and their supporters have a history of routinely lying through their teeth.

Further regarding Jenin, they were also caught trying to move bodies into the area to depict a non-existent massacre. Again, if what they are saying is the truth, why do they need to lie and embellish? The pictures of a true massacre would have been broadcast all over the world, the media has clearly sided with the Palestinians.

Here's a word to look up: 'taqiyyah'. Apparently there are various ways of defining it, but most concern the practice of lying or deception as an acceptable practice in the advancement of some forms of the Muslim religion.

Actually, it is. He was in the reserves in Venezuela, trained as a sniper. He taught me moves that can take down a man twice my size. I know; I tried them out on a rather portly friend of ours. This friend weighed 350 pounds and I took him down as if he weighed nothing.

With all due respect, you are very naive and/or lucky. Someone with my background, training, and physical build could ruin your day in a heartbeat. Your "tricks" will only work on those incompetent or unskilled -- a real operator would eat your lunch without breaking a sweat. Even if you were equally skilled, your slight build would leave you at a serious disadvantage. And to push it even further, even if you had a gun and fair competence in its use versus an unarmed but skilled operator, your odds are still only about 50/50.

You would be very foolish to extrapolate your experience with an incompetent moron to the rest of the population. You would be utterly helpless against someone like me, and only a pistol would give you a fighting chance. I am not trying to be arrogant but am stating a fact; there are a lot more dangerous people out there than the people you've faced.

With all due respect, I think you're wrong. As for my "slight build," haha...what a laugh.

You were the one that said you benchpress 100; I'm assuming you aren't overweight. I'm only 5'9" and I benchpress twice that (a fair bit more than I weigh -- I'm in good shape), and I'm not even a regular weight lifter (I'm more of a cardio guy these days). I've done full contact sparring with very competent female martial artists from a wide-range of styles, and while some of them were my equal skill-wise, my size and strength always gave me an edge. The guys I always worried about were the ones that were the ones that were as good or better than I was, particularly if they were larger. At the more competent levels of unarmed combat "tricks" don't really work, as many practitioners have seen it all as it were and don't supply the premised openings that most tricks rely on, or worse, the more advanced guys will offer the opening as bait for a much more sophisticated attack that the naive almost always fall for. In real world fights, people that know a little are even easier targets than those that know nothing. Admittedly my knife skills are merely passable, but my skill with firearms (pistol and assault rifles primarily) is definitely top drawer and my only combat skill that is pretty much unassailable, though by no means perfect. My unarmed combat skills are good, but I've met a few field operators that could kick my ass in their sleep, but then they really were "the best" or as close to it as one can get in the really world (they devoted decades to combat craft and used it far more regularly than I ever did). Maybe I'm spoiled because I've been surrounded by serious combat expertise for too long. My point is that there are people like this out there, more than you probably imagine, and even guys less skilled than me can probably whomp you good in a real world fight. Fake fighting is not the same as real fighting, particularly when you mix men and women (those damned chivalrous reflexes...).

As for the arrogance, how could I make it NOT come across that way? :-)

It's a hypothetical question, zcat. Chill out.

Listen child, you have entered the fray attempting to defend your socialist views and have been thwarted at every turn. My reply to your question, which was in no way annotated as being a hypothetical, was to the point and unanswered by you other than your lame attempt to claim it as a hypothetical question.

The issues being discussed here are real life and the sooner you face these realities the better off you will be. This is my last reply to you child and an extremely naive child at that. You may be college educated and in your twenties but you are still a child, not a peer and I will no longer debate with you as I would a peer. Now go to bed.......

Israel, by its mere presence in the region, has already pushed its Palestinian population into the largest open-air prison on the planet.

Revisionist history, and hyperbole to boot.

As for knowing both sides of the story, there's no possible way to ever know everything

Copout argument. After 50+ years, I think there is enough history from which to draw a conclusion or two.

You need to keep an open mind in case new information comes to light.

Likewise. While I always try to do so, that should never prevent someone from having an opinion on a situation, even if malleable. Which in fact we all do, whether we admit to that or not. BTW, denial is not the same as openmindedness.

OK....if you say they're liars, please provide examples of where they've lied in the past

I just did!

How is this different from Israelis doing the exact same thing, i.e. moving Palestinians' bodies and arranging the scene so they don't appear guilty of war crimes?

Because one happened, and one did not. Documentation, such as names of the deceased, never match up to what the Pali's claim(ed). They were disproven in their lies, again. How many times can they lie before you will accept that perhaps they are routinely dishonest? If Israel tried to fake something like that, every journalist and movie producer within a 100 miles would expose it. C'mon, you know the spotlight of media inquiry almost always shines on the Israeli's, while ignoring the Pali's. Christian Amanpour, for starters. Need I say more?

As to taqiyyah, yeah, yeah, I am familiar with many of the differences between the various sects. I am also familiar with how supposedly they never cooperate, yet somehow when it comes to terrorism and support of the Pali's these differences evaporate. IIRC, many of the 9/11 hijackers were on a mission for Allah, yet the night before they were partying in strip clubs, in direct disobedience of their sects teachings. So please excuse my scoffing at the notion that members of different sects would not cross-adopt taqiyya and similar techniques if they found it useful. I've heard it invoked too many times as an explanation for why a M. Easterner was dishonest. "But you must understand..."

Situation ethics is the next term that comes to mind.

Anyway, just out of curiousity, are any members of your family Muslims or from the Middle East? You seem to know a good bit about the various sects, so I was wondering where you acquired the knowledge. As to myself, I am Christian(but not an Islam-basher). Here's some trivia: The Muslim vote in Florida in 2000 went 2 to 1 for Bush over Gore. Without it, Gore would be President.

"Most of the crime here is perpetuated by white people".

I don't doubt that for a moment.

Most crime in West Virginia, in Oregon, and, for that matter, in Bulgaria, is undoubtedly perpetuated by white people as well.

And that's because white people are the vast majority of, if not all of, the people in each of the aforementioned- and I understand they are in York as well.

But, what I would like to see is (1) an official statistical breakdown of the British population as a whole by race and/or ethnicity, (2) an official breakdown of British crime in terms of the race and/or ethnicity of the offenders. It would be interesting to compare the per capita results of each, and then we could accurately gauge whether your fears of the white football hooligan vis-a-vis the black or Asian are rational or, alternately, based on Political Correctness. If the figures compare to those found from the United States Uniform Crime Statistics, I sadly inform you that your fears are a result of the latter.

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