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Anti-war crowd must make it's case
The Citizens' Forum ^ | Patlan | Michael

Posted on 09/04/2002 1:47:25 PM PDT by profmike23

Where’s Your Case? By Michael Patlan

The mainstream press, led by the New York Times (the paper of distorted record), is in the throes of waging a campaign to prevent military action against Saddam Hussein. They have incorrectly labeled such action an “Attack on Iraq;” it is actually the liberation of innocent people from an evil dictator. The press is as giddy as a schoolgirl meeting a teen heartthrob over the fact that Republicans disagree on this issue. The pro-Saddam crowd has consistently raised a few points, which I will now address.

“We don’t know how much this war will cost.” Were these people hell bent on knowing the exact cost of World War II , the Persian Gulf War or the Cold War? Did anyone ask FDR how much removing Hitler would cost? Did they ask Truman how much containing Communism would cost? There are few things certain in war; length and cost are not two of them.

Another argument made is that action against Iraq could “destabilize the Middle East.” When has the Middle East had any sort of stability? The only things stable about the Middle East are the denial of freedom to the citizens of these repressive regimes and the subordinate role of women. Are those worth defending?

The pro-Saddam crowd has also said this could derail the war on terror. This is the next phase of the war on terror! While they argue that Saddam has no connection to terrorism, they overlook the fact that he pays families of suicide bombers in Palestine $25,000.1 That’s no small sum in the Middle East. Not to mention the recent death of Abu Nidal, a world-renowned terrorist, in Baghdad!2 The BBC was compelled to call Iraq the “last haven” of Abu Nidal and his followers. 3 Some opposed to war continue to maintain that we must solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict first. Saddam is funding Palestinian terrorists – removing him from power would severely diminish the financial benefits of terrorism for Palestinian youth. They want us to solve a conflict Saddam is sustaining before we remove Saddam from power – that’s just absurd!

Another argument is “the President needs to share his plans, so that we can debate them.” Why would we broadcast our military plans to the world (including Saddam)? That’s just insane.

Then, of course, there’s the argument that the “President must make his case.” Did these people miss the State of the Union? Here are a few of President Bush’s words, “Our second goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September the 11th. But we know their true nature… Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade. This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens -- leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children. This is a regime that agreed to international inspections -- then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world. States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.” That’s a pretty strong case to me. So to those opposing war with Saddam: Where’s your case?

(Excerpt) Read more at thecitizensforum.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abunidal; antiwar; iraq; presidentscase; publicdebate; saddam
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To: Burkeman1
If you trust Bush no more than Clinton, I'd say you're a poor judge of character.

Clinton trotted out 'proof' for bombing the Sudanese aspirin factory and for bombing the crap out of Yugoslavia and it was completely fabricated. Surely an equally untrustworthy Bush administration could do the same thing.

Bottom line, is I trust Bush's judgment on this one -- that Saddam is a threat to US security. I don't trust his judgment on some issues (e.g. immigration) but I do trust it on Iraq.

If a guy like Rumsfeld says Saddam is a threat to my security, but Saddam says no, and Burkeman1 agrees, being unimpressed with the circumstantial evidence...I don't know any of them personally, but with my ass on the line I think I'll stick with Rumsfeld!

41 posted on 09/04/2002 10:51:17 PM PDT by Monti Cello
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To: Monti Cello; Rome2000
I wonder how those who arrogantly say "I'M not convinced/ not enough evidence/ MORE PROOF!!!" respond to STORIES LIKE THIS ONE. We already know that they ignore those about Innocent victims which in itself says a lot.

Those who are now disagreeing with the effort would not be convinced in any case, no matter the proof. And it seems to me that circumstances like this somewhat preclude the use of evidence that would convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, as if that were even necessary outside of a normal criminal trial.

War is seldom that clean and neat. Those playing "Matlock" should realize that.


42 posted on 09/05/2002 5:13:58 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Monti Cello; Rome2000
Oh, and we also have the usual "Patriot act/TIPS/CFR/borders/ etc. etc." cries showing up in the din. As if some problems we admittedly have in domestic policy have any connection whatsoever to national security matters.

The difference is fundamental...if you don't like the domestic security programs, an election looms. Go vote. You cannot, however, vote away an exterior threat. It does not go away if you ignore it, either.

It is the height of folly to use some unsatisfactory domestic issues (CFR, for heaven's sake?) as an excuse for ignoring a threat to our nation as a whole. I'll bet that plenty of those who do so also guarantee such problems in the first place by continually tossing votes to unelectable third party gadflies, which, you may notice, has had the ultimate result of weakening the President's hand at this critical time.

As previously stated: self-centeredness on parade.


43 posted on 09/05/2002 5:25:07 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
What's with the bar code in the pic?
44 posted on 09/05/2002 7:12:43 AM PDT by FreedomFriend
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To: Long Cut
A president's judgement on domestic issues corresponds to his judgement overall. Thus, why can't poor judgement domestically extend internationally? Bush has poor judgement internationally when he continues to push "free trade" and immigration. Why would he not have poor judgement when it comes to Iraq? Also why would Bush sign a bill to make it illegal to go after Al Quaida? That represents bad judgement. Look what happened shortly after.
45 posted on 09/05/2002 7:17:33 AM PDT by FreedomFriend
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To: profmike23
[The media] have incorrectly labeled such action an “Attack on Iraq;” it is actually the liberation of innocent people from an evil dictator.

This needs to be explained loudly and clearly to the "Nuke Baghdad" crowd.

46 posted on 09/05/2002 7:41:40 AM PDT by inquest
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To: FreedomFriend
What exactly is this "law against going after al Qaeda", W199i, you keep referring to? Considering that ALL laws from the Senate use a "S" suffix and all laws from the House use an "H" suffix, and that such a law would surely have been used by now by the Leftists to pound the President about the head and shoulders, you might just have been "'Net Scammed", like a lot of people are about laws all the time. It is beyond all belief that it has not been WIDELY publicized, if not used by the Dims to call for the President's head.

As far as the domestic issues you raised, they are, IMHO, an attempt at distraction from the main objective. Those laws and measures are wrong-headed in my own opinion as well, but they and the issues surrounding them are best blamed on the "soccer moms" and government 'crats who proposed them. Want them gone? Vote conservative. Throw out the Dems who comprise their strongest support. Don't forget, we (thankfully) do not have a dictatorship at home. The President must compromise with a hostile legislature at every turn on domestic issues.

As for the bar code, it sends your computer's address to the F.B.I whenever you see it. The loud noise you now hear are the helicopters outside your house.

Actually, it came with the picture. I'm also trying to find a colored-in version, thus far to no avail. It's a wonderful picture of a Naval Aircrewman, which I am.


47 posted on 09/05/2002 7:41:43 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: FreedomFriend; All
Never mind answering my previous post. A quick Google search on "W199i" yielded only references to an individual named Greg Palast, who seems to believe that the President "stole" the 2000 election. The "legislation" appears only in his LEFTIST, paranoid book.

You must look for better sources of information. There are a lot of crackpots out there.


48 posted on 09/05/2002 8:09:28 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Burkeman1
I think a pro-demcoracy revoltuion is nearly inevitable in most of the Arab world. There were some articles about the high unemployment for males (especially in Saudi Arabia)and I guess in this case idle hands are the tools of freedom. I think removing Saddam may be a spark which would ignite a pro-democracy revolution. I don't think our culture would be imposed, I predict it will be embraced. Overall, the world is better post-liberation. While we disagree, I encourage you to visit the Citizens' Forum and post your disagreements on the message board.
49 posted on 09/05/2002 9:51:45 AM PDT by profmike23
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To: Rome2000
Westernizing the Middle East? Are you serious? That's an impossible task; nor it is a task that we are obligated to perform, if it WAS possible. Let them stew in their own juices; we are not the world's policeman, nor hammer of democracy.
50 posted on 09/05/2002 2:00:41 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: Long Cut
CHICKENHAWKS?

Well, anyway, the people who defend Saddam maybe want to look here:

http://www.serenitygiftshop.com/bushcountry/guestbook.html

Search for this name: Songul. She fled from Iraq after Saddam started to gas the Kurds.
51 posted on 09/05/2002 4:14:01 PM PDT by knighthawk
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