Pharoah's Magicians (Criticism of the Koran by Ex-Muslim)

Freethought Mecca ^

[Salman]

Has the Bible or the Qur'an been "corrupted"? Are there contradictions in these texts? In all honesty, if one takes a liberal stance (influenced by the philosophy of language) they can claim these questions are unclear. A text is nothing more than a bunch of symbols which the reader assigns value to. A religious text is often taken to be metaphorical by believers, thus if sentence X does not necessarily mean 'X' we cannot claim X contradicts Y.

The point here is that it is not clear what any particular religious text is saying; rather that is a matter decided by different readers. In light of this, making any claim about any religious text is an action performed from within a very specific paradigm.

This article will look at an Islamic polemic against the Bible, and ponder the implications of further study on the issue. It will be shown that the attack, which at first glance seems pretty powerful, is actually quite naive. Furthermore, it will be shown that when one approaches the Qur'an in the manner that the proponents of this polemic approach the Bible, a number of heavy blows can be delivered to the credibility of the former. When working within the paradigm created by the polemicist(s), one is able to further extend theories about the Qur'an being from a plurality of sources [1, 2] and consisting of borrowed material [1, 2].

---

Excerpted (long). The rest here.

[Salman]

From an "atheist rationalist" point of view. A fascinating read.

[egarvue]

Very good read. I have read the Koran several times, and each time, I just couldn't shake the opinion that it read like someone who had heard stories from the Bible and other literature, and was just copying the style (the Book of Mormon reads the same way, like someone copying the style of Biblical writing). In my own opinion, there are very few actual stories, histories, etc., in the Koran - there are endless varations and reptitions of the "Allah is Great" theme, though. Its pretty tiresome after a while.

[browardchad]

Excellent. Thanks for posting.

[Blue Screen of Death]

If it is so great, how come I can't find it in hotel rooms?

[justshutupandtakeit]

It is far worse than tiresome but is in fact a PoS. Garbled Biblical stories often twisted to change history (i.e. the transformation of Isaac and Ismael's roles) and idiotic parables and sayings.

Virtually every religion of substance has great power and beauty in the sacred texts. Not Islame its book sounds like something a demonic, illiterate camel driver would come up with. Oh, wait that is exactly what Mohammed (Piss be Upon His Head) was.

[Salman]

If it is so great, how come I can't find it [Koran] in hotel rooms?

Maybe you can in some countries. For that matter, the Gideons got the idea of putting Bibles in every hotel room from the pre-television practice of very fancy hotels providing novels.

[dsutah]

I noticed that too, when on this board womone posted an explanation of Mohammed and Islam. It was like a history of him and his times. In reading it, it gave me a strange feeling that it had some parallels to the Bible. And yes, it also has parallels to the Book Of Mormon, or about what I've read about it (I've never read it through, I'm not LDS). I have read exerpts, and about their history (being in Ut, and having relatives and old friends here).

There are some parallels to Mohammed's life and career, and Joseph Smith's/Brigham Young's, particularly JS. There are obvious differences, of course, but a few similarities.

[dsutah]

Darn it! I should get my glasses on when I type! On the first line, it should say: "when someone posted". I didn't check what I wrote!

[philman_36]

That wasn't long.
Last paragraph...Ponder what? Ponder that!

[Pining_4_TX]

The Book of Mormon also reads like someone trying to copy the style of the Bible and doing it very poorly.

[Hamza01]

It is far worse than tiresome

Ever read the Old Testament, buddy, with its page upon page of begats and begottens.

Frankly, your taste in literature is your own. Personally, I enjoy the language of both the OT, NT, and the Koran. (By the way, William Shakespeare, Goethe, and Shaw particularly liked the Koran.)

But apart from the fact that it your attack is typically inaccuarate (Mohammed was a trader), it is also ill mannered, thuggish, and petty. If you hate the modern iteration of Islam and its present day adherents, I would agree with you. But you would find no Muslim-- NONE-- who would dare treat Jesus Christ with anything other than reverence.

Yea, it ain't us crazed Muslims running around claiming Jesus was gay. Or, as some Jewish authorities suggest, a wild rabbi gone hungry with power.

Your hatred is your business, but do exercise it with care.

[sarasmom]

"Yea, it ain't us crazed Muslims running around claiming Jesus was gay. Or, as some Jewish authorities suggest, a wild rabbi gone hungry with power. Your hatred is your business, but do exercise it with care."

ISLAM = NAZI

Crazed Muslims are running around tring to kill everyone who is not a crazed Muslim.This is obviously different from all other religions, worldwide and throughout history, who lament the loss of the unbelievers soul.

Is this too fine a theological point for Muslims to grasp? If so, who is at fault? The entirety of humanity or a group of barbaric ignorant thugs?

Judeo /Christianity/Bhuddists/Pagans/Agnostics and Atheists eschew Islam.

If Islam wishes to bring things to a decisive conclusion, We, the rest of humanity, will allow GOD to sort it out.

When all of Islam meets HIM personally.We, humanity, do not claim Gods wisdom or power.We do ask his judgement and mercy. We believe he will forgive us if we also ask his vengence against evil.

[Salman]

That wasn't long.

Longer than I felt like cutting and pasting, not to mention the problems involved in inserting the Hebrew and Arabic text.

Last paragraph...Ponder what? Ponder that!

As I said, this article is from an "atheist rationalist" point of view. I don't automatically endorse the whole article, but I consider it very instructive.

"Lower criticism" means criticism of particular texts or translations. "Higher criticism" means criticism of actual content. Originally these terms were used in referencence to classical scholarship. That is to say the study of the literature of ancient Greece and Rome.

From the mid-nineteenth century, it applied to the Bible also, and so became controversial.

The fact that someone raised as a Muslim is going to the trouble of applying it to the Koran right now is significant.

[philman_36]

...I consider it very instructive.
I considered it very instructive too.

[Hamza01]

Crazed Muslims are running around tring to kill everyone who is not a crazed Muslim.This is obviously different from all other religions, worldwide and throughout history, who lament the loss of the unbelievers soul.

Sarasmom, can you really be this naive? Pogroms against Jews by Christians continued in Russia (with great enthusiasm) well into 1920s. In India today, the same Hindu nutjobs who murdered Gandhi now kill scores of Muslims and Christians every day in a fashion so horrific that it makes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict look like family picnic. And of course, German pagans and agnostics, (those lovely and harmless folk you seem to have a soft spot for) put millions of people into ovens in the name of racial purity.

And that's just this century... do you want to go deeper into the past, when Protestants and Catholics went at it in the name of the same God? Or the Islamic conquests of Europe? Or the Spanish Inquisition? Or the Crusades when Christians slaughtered other Christians in Constantinople because they looked Mediterranean (like the Arabs)?

No, I am afraid you are quite wrong when you say this is "different from all other religions, worldwide and throughout history". Tragically, it is no different.

Humanity has bathed in blood in God's name. It is not God's fault. Nor is it the fault of religion. It is merely the fault of Man.

Oh, by the way it is <>interesting how you claim to speak for all humanity. I would not be so bold.

What I do advise is that you should know your enemy... its name is Wahabbism-- a Saudi cult as close to Islam as the Klan is to Christianity.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Yes, in fact that portion of the Old Testament would represent a step up for 99% of the Koran. But one should not have high expectations for the scraps of trash removing from wastebaskets. Those scraps consisting of the rambling "wisdom" of a brutal, murderous illiterate would best have been left in the garbage. Where did you get the idea that Shakespeare (or Goethe) admired the Koran?

There is nothing positive in Islame as its current manifestation amply demonstrates. It spread through war and the penchant for swords on its flags is no accident nor is it an aberration that Mohammed rewarded those who murdered his enemies (often in the most unhanded and devious of fashions). Something Jesus would never do.

Mohammedeans by placing Mo on a plane with Jesus totally dishonor him since the former is a brutal, ignorant, pedophile and the latter the Son of God. We saw a perfect example of the Islamaniacs regard for the Lord when they turned the Church of the Holy Sepulcure into a latrine a few months ago. Christ's followers are routinely murdered in the name of the Koran throughout the world. Should I list the nations or just remind you of the recent attacks on Churches, schools and hospitals in Pakistan the Moslemanatics committed in the name of "Allah." Allah- the God of Death is worshipped with the blood of non-believers on a daily basis. But the descendants of Ismael were foretold in the Bible to have their hands against every man and every mans' hands against them. These lunatics respect and honor Jesus (or life itself) like they respect and honor women.

Mo drove camels for his first wife who was a merchant. Once a camel driver always a camel driver. There is little in the Koran of literary worth as I stated and no comparision between the concepts and expression in it and in the Bible. To believe so merely indicates no taste in literature or understanding of literary qualities. For every passable phrase (or even sensible one)in the Koran I can give you a dozen from the Bible. Some people think Mickey Spillane and Ayn Rand were great writers and the equivalent of Dickens and Tolstoy, too. So what?

Believe me I do exercise my hatred with care and at present it is directed to those committing barbarities across the world in the name of Mad Mo(Piss be upon his head) and their apologists. It is impossible for true muslims and the rest of the world to coexist as their actions illustrate since it must convert the entire world or kill it. One or the other must go and it won't be the rest of the world.

[DooDahhhh]

Just how do you feel about Mohammed???? My parrot's name is Mo; therefore, all Mo's are not evil. (Full name of parrot is Moses)

[hopespringseternal]

Pogroms against Jews by Christians continued in Russia (with great enthusiasm) well into 1920s.

The difference being that Christians quickly and firmly disavow those people and happily prosecute the racist dirtbags whenever they get the chance. Muslims on the other hand, betray their own approval with their praise by faint condemnation of the WTC mass murder. Or dancing in the streets.

[justshutupandtakeit]

If he had feathers I might like him after all he was a bird brain.