AUTOPSY AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS ON THE DEATH OF CHIEF NEGOTIATOR

08/23/02 | Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, Houston Fire Department Fire/Arson Investigations

[COB1]

"short in the wiring, or signs of an accelerant?"

"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

"The investigators.. (crossed out).. smelled gas at scene"

[SarahW]

If Mrs CN went to take a bath, then the water heater probably switched on about that time.

Was CN's computer or TV on the same circuit?

I think there might have been a TV in the dining room.

[IronJack]

There are still a lot of questions unanswered. If the death occurred within 10 minutes of the "loud noise," is it fair to assume that the loud noise was in some way connected to the fire? Could it have been an explosion, a window breaking from an incendiary device thrown through it, an accidental ignition of Herb's lighter fluid while he was refilling his pipe lighter, whatever?

If he screamed so violently immediately after the noise, isn't it fair to assume that he had been either injured, ignited, or horribly frightened by the noise? How does a man burst into flames spontaneously? Something started the fire.

That determination is markedly absent from these reports.

It occurs to me that Herb ran to the bathroom to wash off whatever had ignited on him. But that he was unable to do so before succumbing to the smoke and/or heat.

This mystery is far from solved.

[COB1]

"Does anyone know the background of the neighbor that was mentioned early on?"

Yes, I have his background from the report I just received.
Let me see if I can phrase it so that we can stay out of trouble.
I'll work on it.

[Kadric]

It would if there were drapes drawn across the window. The fire bomb would more than likely fall down trapped between the drapes and the wall.

[philman_36]

All in all...Not very reassuring was it.

[ClancyJ]

Thanks COB1 - was wondering if we would ever hear more about this. Can't believe something like this can happen and there is no evidence of the cause.

The screams are the most puzzling to me as if the fire actually hit and burned him - but there is no evidence of that.

A murderer could not be sure that a fire like this would be fatal to him - so maybe it was not murder.

[EternalVigilance]

This info continues to make me think our friend was fire-bombed. If this was an 'accident', what caused it?

Isn't there more info available than this? Does anybody know what fire and police officials are saying down there? What is their latest statement about Herb's death?

If this had been me or you, wouldn't we want our friends to know the truth about how we died?---and if we were killed, wouldn't we want the perpetrators brought to justice?

[carenot]

I still haven't received my report.

When I called back over a week ago, Susan said she mailed it August 1. She said she would send another.
Maybe I will get it tomorrow.

[lewislynn]

"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

Aluminum wiring?

[LadyX]

Thank you for the hail.
Sadly, it contains more questions and no real answers.

May we all be comforted by remembering CHIEF as we perceived him to be - our dear phriend, phishing in calm waters now.

Rest well, dear Brother ~ ~ ~

* SALUTE *

[Grammy]

Thanks Cob

[Rebelbase]

"What's the status on the neighbor?"

BUMP!

[sailor4321]

I don't know when the house was built; however, there was a time in the early 70's when the electrical code allowed copper and aluminum to be used together in residential housing construction (the was a "boom" period, and this was intended to alleviate material shortages). The problem is that these metals expand at different rates under electrical load with the result that at switches and outlets the connections loosen (where you connect the wire with a screw. At first this loosening just increases the resistance, and the outlet and several feet of wire heat up a lot. Then you get some arcing at the connection. Of course, everything is nice and hot so then a fire starts easily and spreads quickly.

We bought one of these houses over in the Glenshannon tract off 59. The "fair warning" that came with house was that we really ought to go around and check every switch and outlet at least once per year and make sure they were tight. Even with that, we had a couple of minor fires in the kitchen at a particularly heavily used outlet (on serval other occasions I noticed that outlet and adjacent wall were hot and was able to forestall any problems by tightening the connection). Eventually, the developer came back and re-wired some of the houses (lots of people were oblivious to the problem) but not all of them.

The fire discussed here is consistent with this kind of problem; however, I don't see anything in the report about electric except that two CB's were tripped off (i.e., no direct attribution to wiring).

[philman_36]

Did the autopsy report burns to the hands or arms?
Were there any burns even noted in the autopsy and if so what degree?
If Herb was physically on fire and attempted to "pat them out" there should be some degree of burns on the hands.
The notion that he lit himnself on fire with lighter fluid is laughable.

[MistyCA]

Cob, I just want to say that I have had a copy of the autopsy/coroner's report for some time now. It does not correspond with the information from the Arson Team at all. I have nothing more to say on this subject except that when I contacted the coroner who did the report I was very upset with the inaccuracy of information that he used to do his report and make his findings. There is no excuse, imo, for the p1ss poor job that was done on this case. :)))))

[Wednesday's Child]

Thank you for this update. Not a day goes by that I don't think of The CHIEF as I log on to FR.
Continued prayers to Mrs. CHIEf and her family.

[MistyCA]

Thanks for the ping, Care! Amazed that it has taken so long to get those reports. I have had them, as you know, for some time now.

[Dog Gone]

It appears that the photos in this post were taken through the dining room window in question. Not only would that seem to be an unlikely window through which to throw a firebomb (the ones shown in the living room seem far more inviting for that) but it's unlikely to have been one with heavy drapes, since it's only a relatively small window.

The dining room itself is very small, and is an unlikely place to expect Herb to be at that time of night. It would be very surprising if a killer wouldn't wait until the lights were turned off, and then attack, probably the bedroom, but certainly not the dining room.

I initially thought Herb was probably murdered. After seeing the photos and the diagram, I think that is probably only a remote possibility now.

[NTegraT]

COB1, thanks very much for the report and for your keeping tabs on all. A part of FR died that day when we lost the Chief.