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To: ALS
I just LOVE the way you think, ALS. It is so provincial.

You think that because you read it in English that the original must be exactly what the translator meant when he found an English word that was close to the same thing in Greek. Amazing.

The Greek word sindon, meaning SHROUD, was used in the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) when refering to the cloth that Joseph of Aramathea purchased and wrapped Jesus' body in. Sindon is SINGULAR, not plural.

Another Greek word was used in John to indicate the asssortment of cloths that were found. That word is othonia which is plural. In addition, John uses the term sudarion, singlar, which means either "napkin" or "kerchief" to indicate the seperate cloth laying aside from the other grave cloths.

ALS, I was posting from various translations to show you that the scholars who translated those passages from the earliest Greek manuscripts had, in that passage, found the SINGULAR form to be the most correct. Using a similar technique, I find that the word "wrapped" is variously translated as "wound", "wrapped", "folded", and "rolled", depending on which word the scholar preferred to translate the original Greek word.

Your ability to discern the meaning of one word from the original writers of the Gospels from a modern English translation without examining the original is truly amazing.

Your assertion that there were more than one cloth is a given. It is your assertion that these cloths were all "strips" that I am challenging. NOWHERE does it say that in any of the gospels about Jesus' burial.

It was common practice to bind the wrists to keep them from flopping down to the sides when rigor mortis passed. There is a Greek word, kerias, which can be variously translated as "bandages", "bonds", or "ties", which was used to describe the grave cloths of Lazarus... but these are considered the bindings on wrists, ankles, and jaw. It was common practice to tie a binding around the head and under the jaw to keep the mouth closed... hence the rolled up "napkin" or "kerchief", the sudarion, left in a different place from the other cloths, commented on as though this were something to be noted as important.

As for logical conclusions or assumptions, it IS logical to conclude that Lazarus was not bound like an Egyptian mummy because it was reported he WALKED out of the tomb under his own power. I challenge you to show me how even a living person wrapped as an Egyptian mummy (not as a Hollywood mummy) could walk.

Only YOU are assuming "strips" to fit your preconceived notions of how burials took place. I have quoted authoritative sources in the Gospels; I have shown you the Greek words and shown that there are alternate meanings, and yet you still continue in your ignorant rantings about "bindings" and "strips." You cannot place YOUR "wishes" in the place of facts. I am merely following the research and scholarship.

128 posted on 08/29/2002 12:03:15 PM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: Swordmaker
I prefer Strong's and the KJV instead of flip flopping around hoping some new version rerenders the way you want, and I'm not impressed much by you posting the greek, latin, hebrew or aramaic. I was studying all when you were still popping zits in the back seat of your uncle's Gremlin. You lose, deal with that and move on to the next bowable icon, k?

ps - your "way of thinking" is small at best. Did I mention wrong?

"think outside the shroud"

129 posted on 08/29/2002 3:31:42 PM PDT by ALS
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