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Bush to push for thinning
Oregon Live/ AP ^ | 21 August 2002 | AP Staff

Posted on 08/21/2002 6:20:28 AM PDT by Grampa Dave

Bush to push for thinning

The Associated Press, 8/21/02 4:21 AM

MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) -- President Bush will address forest health issues when he visits Medford on Thursday, most likely pushing for more intensive thinning of Western forests to reduce fire danger.

When they reach Medford, the president and U.S. Sen. Gordon Smith will receive a briefing on Oregon wildfires, according to Joe Sheffo, Smith's press secretary.

Bush and Smith will then be taken on a tour of the area burned by the Squire fire southeast of Ruch. The fire scorched nearly 3,000 acres of public and private land after it was sparked by lightning July 13.

The president's visit comes as Western lawmakers draw up legislation to speed cutting of overgrown forests. Administration officials have blamed tangles of environmental rules for slowing logging on federal lands and want cutting accelerated to meet targets set by the 1994 Northwest Forest Plan.

Environmental groups, long critical of the president for appointing friends of timber and other industries to top posts, said the president is simply using Western wildfires to justify increased logging.

"This administration was pushing logging before these fires, it's pushing logging because of these fires, and it'll be pushing logging after these fires," said Nathaniel Lawrence of the Natural Resources Defense Council.

The White House on Tuesday invited Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber to join the president in Southern Oregon on Thursday, when Bush will ride in a helicopter over the huge Biscuit Fire and visit a smaller fire closer to Medford.

Kitzhaber has led an effort by the Western Governors' Association to address wildfire threats across the West.

The Bush administration has signed onto the governors' plan of stepped-up thinning, and Bush will promote that Thursday. But the administration has so far not committed to the funding the governors want and in some cases has suggested firefighting costs have escalated out of control.

Governors from Idaho, Arizona and Montana also have been invited to join the president in Medford.

The president will also have politics on my mind.

"This is very significant for us," state Republican Party Chairman Perry Atkinson said. "We know that Oregon is one of the targeted states in the next election cycle."

If Atkinson had any doubts, he was jokingly reminded of that in the days just before Bush's inauguration.

"When I met with the president, he leaned over and said, 'Just 6,776 votes, are you going to make it up to me next time?' " Atkinson said, referring to the number of votes that Bush lost Oregon by in the 2000 election.

"I told him we would do our best."

The current Oval Office occupant will not be the first President Bush to have visited the Rogue Valley.

His father made a presidential visit to Medford in mid-September, 1992. Before that, the last presidential visit came when President Gerald Ford arrived in 1976.

Rutherford B. Hayes was the only other sitting president to visit the Rogue Valley, arriving in September of 1880.


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: biscuitfire; ecoterrorism; enviralists; kalmiopsisburnt; oregonisburning; oregonstillburning; ruralcleansing; stopecoterrorism; unhealthyforests; watermelonjihadists; watermelons
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To: EBUCK
"This guy I talked to sounds like a real fighter and would defend the BB with his already hired team of lawyers."

This means that as soon as he can find another billboard, he'll just stick another one up. Sickening.

141 posted on 08/21/2002 1:03:25 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: cake_crumb
You're welcome for the list. But I can't take credit. I stole it from another thread from some time back ( June, I think). I didn't take note of WHO did the list...but send THEM your silent thanks!

Good news about the increase in the farm bill......and contrary to what many on this forum think, I still think there are some good guys and women in the USFS.
142 posted on 08/21/2002 1:07:26 PM PDT by justshe
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To: justshe
"...contrary to what many on this forum think, I still think there are some good guys and women in the USFS."

Me too. It's the snot nosed kids, fresh out of college, who think a piece of paper makes them smarter than people with 20 years of field experience who give the whole show a bad name.

143 posted on 08/21/2002 1:12:15 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: cake_crumb
Not like that at all. The reason the billboard is coming down is because the people who "payed him to put up" chose not to extend the contract. Not because someone forced him to do it.

By fighter I meant that he wouldn't cave into pressure to remove ours if we got it put up.

EBUCK

144 posted on 08/21/2002 1:13:37 PM PDT by EBUCK
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To: blackie
GWB is accountable,

Who's holding him accountable? Not people who say "everythings alright, The President is a Republican".

The fish are more important than my crop, but thats OK, the President is a Republican.

We are buying oil from the people who murdered 3000 of us and the President won't put that fact before the public when a weak 1 vote majority in the Senate won't let us drill in ANWR, but thats OK, the President is a Republican.

W's Secretary of Transportation says we can't search Arabs in airports because its racist, but put on the rubber gloves and take granny to the back room because she might be a terrorist. Thats OK, because the President is a Republican.

The right of free speech is suspended for 6 weeks before an election, but thats OK, the law was signed in by a Republican.

Lets federalize a bunch of illiterit burger flippers that we can never fire, that must be a good idea too, because a Republican President signed off on it.

We support a small govt candidate and get BIG GOVT, but thats OK, because the big govt is run by a Republican.

I have this great bridge in Brooklyn for sale at a good price, are you interested? You can trust me, because I'm a Republican.

145 posted on 08/21/2002 1:16:24 PM PDT by putupon
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To: Grampa Dave
It's about time and bttt. Thanks for this catch.
146 posted on 08/21/2002 1:18:53 PM PDT by lodwick
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To: EBUCK
OOOOOOOhhhhhh....OK.....sorry...brain-flatulence....running a carb+caffeine deficit at the moment...curing it with an apple and a cup of tea or two.
147 posted on 08/21/2002 1:19:34 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: putupon
And what does W say when Daschle blocks ANWR, judicial appointments, etc, etc etc? Nothing.

And if he did say something, what then? Daschle is under no obligation to do anything the President says. None. Nada.

Daschle is in control of the Senate, dictates what comes to the floor and what doesn't, yet you still blame Bush.

That's dishonest and you know it.

The Reagan argument is a non-starter. You don't know what Reagan would have or would not have done. All you have is speculation and you are passing it off as fact.

It's not.

If you want to blame someone, blame Jeffords for tossing control of the Senate to the Democrats, making Daschle the truly illegitimate Senate Majority Leader.

But I already know such facts are lost on you because no matter what, you will blame Bush. Even when it can be proven that he is not at fault.

148 posted on 08/21/2002 1:39:00 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: r9etb
Well then, given the present, what geographical areas of the nation are suffering because of clear cutting?
149 posted on 08/21/2002 1:40:19 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Grampa Dave
As "this morning's report" actually comes from 8 p.m.last night, I expect it will hit 500,000 acres today or tomorrow.

150 posted on 08/21/2002 1:44:54 PM PDT by Granof8
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To: putupon
Michael Medved is having a great show today on KRLA....tune it in...there might still be time for you to call in.
151 posted on 08/21/2002 1:59:12 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: putupon; justshe
Hey, crybaby, you haven't answered my question...

When you stop foaming at the mouth, read "justshe's" post # 73 again...sigh...

I'm not a Republican, I'm a registered Independent...

You can have the last word, this conversation is over.

Stop the attacks by the wacko, extreme left-wing, lunatic fringe, dirt worshipping Green Jihadist, enviro-nazis terrorist's, on our Freedoms !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

FMCDH !!


152 posted on 08/21/2002 2:13:13 PM PDT by blackie
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To: Enterprise
Well then, given the present, what geographical areas of the nation are suffering because of clear cutting?

Sounds like you could use a trip up the Olympic Peninsula in Washington state....

153 posted on 08/21/2002 2:21:46 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
I'm not sure, but I believe most, if not all of us here are not condoning clear cutting as any form of timber management practice.

There's lotsa profit to be made by thinning and management of forests so that acreage can be harvested every decade or so as long as we wish.

In addition to profit, forests are healthier and more disease/pest resistant overall, and deadfall is cleaned up so that the danger of these incredibly hot infernos is nullified.

154 posted on 08/21/2002 2:37:15 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: cake_crumb
I'm not sure, but I believe most, if not all of us here are not condoning clear cutting as any form of timber management practice.

There are people who do condone and practice clear-cutting. Be that as it may, I'm not really condemning it as a general rule.

My point was made in response to the claim that logging does not destroy ecosytems. It's rather obvious that logging does damage ecosystems. The damage is to some extent reparable. Left untreated, though, logging can permanently change (i.e., "destroy") an ecosystem.

Clear-cutting is an obvious example where there are potentially significant environmental impacts due to erosion and other factors. IIRC, the USFS did some studies a few years back in Oregon's Deschutes National Forest, on the environmental impacts of various types of logging. Un-restored clear cuts showed very significant erosion problems. (I could probably drive you to the very spot...)

By the same token, I encourage anybody interested to visit Camp Sherman, OR -- worth visiting anyway -- to take a look at the forest thereabout. Historically the area has been quite heavily logged (selectively, for BIG trees, for real profits), but the forest shows no obvious signs of it having happened. In that same area there's also a very interesting on-going demonstration of various thinning methods, the results of which look quite encouraging.

155 posted on 08/21/2002 3:05:10 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Grampa Dave
and your Sawgrass Rebellion is a good start in reversing their rural cleansing of America agendas.

Your MOUTH (and chainsaw hehe)is the is one of the best weapons "in reversing their rural cleansing of America". All this country would need is around 100,000 people like you grampa.

156 posted on 08/21/2002 3:27:34 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: r9etb
Tell me then if you know, the total acreage of clear cut forests compared to the total acerage destroyed in fires in the last five years.
157 posted on 08/21/2002 3:40:06 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: r9etb
Umm...no, logging in general does not destroy ecosystems. In general, any logger can tell you: the grouse stay right there and the deer simply wait for the trees to be topped...like ringing the dinner bell, but that is a terrible generalization.

I hope it is clear by now what Hubby does for a living. Fifteen years ago, he did a "test grid" on NYS Forestry land. The grid was an experimental checkerboard of acreage plots. For instance, some plot was clear cut; on some the stumps had to be a certain height with "ramp access" made from the tree originally cut, no matter what grade the tree was, so the male ruffed grouse to mount, make his mating dance and make little grouse; some plots were fenced in to keep the deer out; on some they thinned the brush; one they only "ringed" trees of certain sizes; some they had to lodge a huge pine log into a stand of oak in order to make cover; some they thinned; some couldn't be touched.....

The moral of this rather long story is that most of the test plots showed little impact on the number or habits of the native species inhabiting them.

This was a scientific habitat study. It had many stupid aspects, such as not taking into account that the ruffed grouse doesn't need a ramp made from a vaneer log to get on top of a stump...it has wings. It can fly. Rabbits don't need special habitat impact studies because the information is there for the taking in cities, suburban neighborhoods, whathaveyou. However the study was checking the impact on the entire ecosystem....perhaps they were too careful, because out of all those acres of logged-for-profit and felled and left lie trees....there was no impact to species.

That's a problem with environmentalism: it does not take into account the inherant toughness of nature...instead believing that nature is so delicate that the least little disturbance will kill off thousands of species.

That ain't so. Species have been spontaneously becoming extinct for millions of years. With careful management, rather than hunting to extinction...in general....what is that line from Jurassic Park..."Life will find a way."

Me, I do not like clear cutting on steep hillsides. It causes soil erosion and severe degradation, especielly where topsoil is thin.

158 posted on 08/21/2002 3:48:57 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: Grampa Dave; All
G'night all...I have to finish making supper.

He!! pf a thread tonight Grampa.....he!!uvathread.

Good work and dedication BUMP!!

159 posted on 08/21/2002 4:02:55 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: cake_crumb
Good post. And you KNOW in this day and age..there isn't a timber sale that goes forward WITHOUT the enviros perusing it with a microscope. We even have a nut-case here, that goes out and measures, to the inch, the area for the timber sale. Then, of course, ties up the local timber sales folk for months w/FOIA requests, and in the end, initiates a lawsuit anyway. WHY they don't just go right for the courts in the first place is beyond me.....quess it would be TOO fast. You have to DRAW OUT THE IRRITANT factor, dontcha know! I really really really detest some of these people.
160 posted on 08/21/2002 4:07:10 PM PDT by justshe
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