Lawyer: Client Shot Once

ctnow.com ^ | August 16, 2002 | TINA A. BROWN

[RogerFGay]

In the dead of the night on June 20, 2001, Hartford's SWAT team circled a parking lot and an elementary school rooftop, trying to spot Catalino Morales and his fugitive partner from Pennsylvania.

When the fugitives were spotted between two cars on Plainfield Street, officers yelled, "Police, get down. Police, get down to the ground."

[river rat]

I say again....the stupid bastard PICKED the "whore"...now, pay her!
Semper Fi

[Shooter 2.5]

It sounds like the poor, poor deadbeat's gun failed and some of the people on this board want a "do over".
Suppose the next time the Sheriffs have to serve a warrant they call these heroes and let them serve it.

[river rat]

" This became a legal extortion industry.

I agree 100%.
But you're missing my argument.
Folks need to be more careful in their selection of mates, and then their treatment of those mates.
Guys, especially -- need to think with the head that is above their shoulders.
Some actions, like copulation - have MANY long range consequences: children, disease, financial responsibilities.
Semper Fi

[river rat]

Right!,
Reading how some people think is spooky!
It is also spooky to realize these assholes vote!
Semper Fi

[Cultural Jihad]

Since the subject is a man who shot at sheriff's deputies, I am surprised none of the small but vocal anarcho-ideologues aren't swarming this thread.

[river rat]

Yeah, but I'm not defending the "Barney Fifes" out there.
I don't dispute there may be circumstances where I would consider "resisting" in the most prejudiced manner --- but some of the arguments being made about "deadbeat" dads were just too much to ignore.

Some ethnic communities have >70% of children being born to unwed mothers ---- I want the "fathers" paying for the lay, not me.
Same goes for the kids born to families, that didn't stick together.
I didn't screw their wives, so I don't think I should support her kids if the father is around and making any money..
Semper Fi

[Harrison Bergeron]

"The government's bad behavior generally is not in any case cancelled by this guy's response.

It would be intellectually dishonest if, by the above, you were implying that the man's response (gunfire) were somehow mitigated by the government's bad behavior. Defending the indefensible is just as wrong for us as for the government. If I were trying to make a name for myself in the arena of father's rights and divorce reform, I'd damn well learn the details before I condemned LEOs and defended a man - father or otherwise - who opened fire on them.

As a men's and father's rights advocate myself, this is not a hill that I would chose to die on.

[Cultural Jihad]

It would be intellectually dishonest if, by the above, you were implying that the man's response (gunfire) were somehow mitigated by the government's bad behavior. Defending the indefensible is just as wrong for us as for the government. If I were trying to make a name for myself in the arena of father's rights and divorce reform, I'd damn well learn the details before I condemned LEOs and defended a man - father or otherwise - who opened fire on them.

Worthy of a repeat.

[Orangedog]

That some women railroad some men is not an excuse to claim that child support laws are unconstitutional.

Please show me where in the constitution the government is authorized to persecute, hound, and imprison any citicen for ANY debt. Please also show all of us where the constitution empowers the government to take one side in a divorce and use the threat of criminal sanction against the other side if that person does not do what the mother demands. Perhaps you can show us where women are designated as a special class that allows them to use a mans children as a means of emotional and finanacial extortion.

[Cultural Jihad]

Show us where in the Constitution does it say that the people of a state may not hold irresponsible people responsible for their actions, especially when it concerns the welfare of children.

[Cultural Jihad]

Do you believe that traffic stops, driver's licenses, and speeding tickets are unconstitutional?

[Orangedog]

Glad to see that there are some core areas that we all can agree upon. Divorce used to be considered socially unaccpetable by society, which made it rare. In those rare cases, the motivating factor was usually drug/alcohol abuse ro other dangerous behavior. Once divorce no longer needed someone to blame for the breakdown of a marriage, it became more common and the social consequences faded. Even then, the realities of economy was still a deterant to breaking up a family. The laws that have given us no-fault divorce have been accompanied by other laws and regulations that reduce the financial consequences of one party and shifted much of the responsibility to the other while at the same time, taking away many of the rights that every other parent has always taken for granted.

As for not wanting to "pay for another guys lay", even if every penny that the court says he has to pay is extracted from him (or ANY additional arbitrary amount), EVERYONE is still going to "pay." There is overwelming evidence that children who grow up in a single parent home are several times more likely to abuse drugs and/or alcohol, engage in sexual activity, attempt suicide, or become involved with criminal activity. That evidence also shows that those things are more likely to happen when the mother is the single parent than when the sole parent raising the children is the father. That causes long-term, multi-generational damage to society. Some of those things you can put a dollar amount on...the others have a cost that money can't be used as a gauge to measure.

I know a lot of the people here, and I don't know a one of them that thinks it's "cool" for a father to abandon his family. But it's disheartening to see so many others who will, by default, automatically blame the father as being the one who abandoned his family when more than 2/3 of the divorces are initiated by women. Those people also have no problem with or even question why in 90% of divorces, the custody of the children is given to the mother. The laws of economics shows clearly that if you want more of something to happen, all you have to do is subsidize it. When there is a financial incentive, or shelter from financial consequences, to break up a marriage, there will be more failed marriages. All that is required now to start a divorce is $500 and an argument.

True "deadbeats" are the exception, not the rule in society.

I've always met my financial obligations to my childs mother. A lot of times I voluntarily buy things that the support that she is payed is supposed to cover. It's not easy. The industry I work in (telecom) is in a depression and near collapse. I make a decent living from it. It's the only real job that I have any experience in. Over the past couple of years I've seen a lot of my co-workers laid off. The whole industry has shed over 250,000 jobs and is going to lose a lot more. The possibility of me being laid off is getting bigger every week. If I do get laid off, there are no other jobs in the industry to be had. I'll have to get work in an entirely different field and will most likely be earning a good deal less than I am now, and have to work harder and longer to get that. We're talking about a 40% drop in income and longer work hours to get that much. If I can't afford to pay everything the judge says I owe my ex wife after paying to keep a roof over my head, will that make me a deadbeat too?

[Orangedog]

The 10th Amendment allows for that. Where in the constitution does it authorize the federal government to give those states over $4 billion every year only if those states continue to issue support orders based on arbitrary figures and use the threat of federal criminal sanction to compel payment of some of those orders?

[Orangedog]

No, those are permitted by the states rights protected under the 10th amendment. But I do take issue with the federal government taking the federal gasoline tax collected by the states and threatening not to return any of that money for upkeep of the roads if the states don't change their laws to meet what the feds want those laws to be.

[river rat]

"If I can't afford to pay everything the judge says I owe my ex wife after paying to keep a roof over my head, will that make me a deadbeat too?"

I don't know the law -- but I believe when your circumstances change - that the court's order can be appealed.
Semper Fi

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

We already know it. You did not answer the question.

OK, my father was born in the country from parents who immigrated shortly after the end of the civil war. My mother's parents were born in the US, as were their parents. I have been a conservative activist for 40 years, and was a member of the second level leadership of Youth for Goldwater and the Young Americans for Freedom.

This being said, like everyone I knew in those organizations, many of whom are in conservative and GOP leadership positions, I have no use for nutcase anarchists who support cop-killing. They belong either in jail, or in the cemetary, according to their actions.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Can I be truthful here?

Am I the only one that notices that another individual with a spanish type name (Catalino Morales) is a suspect in, guilty of, another brutal rape, murder, and or attempted murder. Is this Racism to bring this up? Do we dare consider this? Article after article seems to have suspects with spanish names as the perpetrators.....Do we dare talk about this?

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Since I have restricted myself here to denouncing the illegitimate use of violence against law-abiding law enforcement officers, I will put in my two cents on the question of the laws governing divorce among parents of children. IMHO, anyone who seeks a divorce when they have children are guilty of child abuse, and should be prosecuted for that crime.

Ever since actual marriage in this country was replaced by legalized trial marriage, a great many people have had the idea that there are no permanent connections with your spouse, that if you have problems, or see something else that appeals to you, you are free to 'discover yourself' and get divorced, 'screw the kids'. This is one of the primary causes of the moral collapse in our society.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Article after article seems to have suspects with spanish names as the perpetrators.....Do we dare talk about this?

Why not, there are a lot of people with Hispanic surnames, and they tend to have a higher crime rate than non-Hispanics, just as African-Americans do. In the past Irish and Jewish Americans had higher crime rates than the earlier Yankee stock. So what else is new?

[Kevin Curry]

The deputies were trying to arrest him for child support and he shot at them. I don't see the defense.

Perhaps it's a variation on the "Don Matthews Defense."