Bragg Ends Confinement Of Soldiers

Fayetteville (N.C.) Observer ^ | August 15, 2002 | Henry Cuningham

[robowombat]

It would be interesting to know what went adrift. Someone's career is going to evaporate over this one.

[Tailback]

Someone could have lost a GPS, night vision goggles (nods), or the worst case scenario is a lost weapon. If a soldier lost their weapon they will probably end up at Leavenworth. If it's any of the other stuff they'll end up buying it.

[Enterprise]

"It would be interesting to know what went adrift."

It was probably a picture of a high ranking officer cavorting with a young enlisted female.

[2banana]

Someone lost or had a weapon stolen. That is the only reason to lock down so many soldiers.

[Pern]

Fort Bragg soldiers have been kept from going home...

And they wonder why recruitment is down. I certainly wouldn't like to be held against my will for a 'missing secret item'. Just another case of officers on a power trip.

[DK Zimmerman]

Essentially, I agree, but in my experience, before a jail term is imposed, extreme negligence or out right larcenous intent has to be established, before even a weapon loss incurs a jail term.

When you have thousands of folks, working long hours in trying environments, dumb things are done and stuff that shouldn't be, gets lost. I hope the Army hasn't gotten to such a zero-defect mindset that simple negligence demands incarceration.

Now, should larcenous intent be established or even aggravated false reporting, jail time can ensue, even if it doesn't entail the loss of a weapon.

[MichaelP]

I was out on a field cpx as an S2 rto with 2/17 cav, 101st abn div, in the early 70s. A K38 encryption key gun was lost. We were told we would be kept in the field until it was found. It was, after many hours of searching. This would have to be something like that...

Mike

[dd5339]

The unit I was with in the Marine Corps had a 45 pistol go missing after an operation. We were locked down to the barracks for three days after coming off of several days of 4 hours on duty/4 hours off. We could go to the chow hall or the PX only with MP escort.

The 45 was later returned to the armory. After convincing the Armory NCO that he would suffer severe bodily harm if he didn't cough up who did it so we could educate the offender, he told us that it was our commanding officer. Seems he forgot he had the 45 when he went home to his off base housing. He took the pistol off and put it on his nightstand. We all guessed that he must not have saw it when he was going home each night to his wife. We never recieved any word from him about the incident. He was a true loser for of a CO.

Semper Fi

[DK Zimmerman]

I beg to differ. As soon as you start letting folks go, you discover that someone who left knew something or has something you need. It is far from a power trip for the officers involved.

Quite the opposite. Numerous officers and non-commissioned officers in the chain of command involved are facing a serious threat to their careers. Their actions (before, during, and after loss)are being examined every bit as closely as those of the soldier who actually "lost" the item are.

Even if their actions had nothing to do with the actual loss, since the loss occurred, they will be scrutinized and if found wanting, could result in anything from admonishment to "relief for cause" and/or UCMJ (legal, sort of) action.

[cynicom]

robo....

The military mindset has changed little in a hundred years from it's treatment of enlisted personell. Out of one side of its's mouth it speaks of the "modern" military, out of the other side, it spews the old class system. I sometimes wonder how they keep any long term people at all.

[struwwelpeter]

I don't think they ever found ours.

[Pern]

I spent 5 years on a destroyer, and I know officers go on a power trip every once in a while. I remember the whole crew being confined aboard ship after a month long deployment because the ship wasn't clean enough. The offending item was a fire-station, on deck, sprinked with sea salt. The CO went balistic over this. The rest of the ship was immaculate, from the signal bridge to the engine room, but he was trying to impress the Admiral for his O-6 recomendation.

A few months later, the CO found out he wasn't selected for Captain (O-6) and retired. He was found a few days later dead in his car at the Charleston Naval Base Exchange. He died of a heart attack. The crew actually threw a little party to celebrate (unofficially, of course).

[weikel]

Damn I didn't know they took losing your weapon so seriously in the military LOL.

[Tailback]

We had a similar celebration for a XO that was medivaced out of Turkey for a heart attack. He was one serious A-hole.

[Always A Marine]

Note that the missing item is described as "sensitive." Weapons are important, and losing a weapon under is a deadly sin. But infantry weapons are not sensitive.

Sensitive items are those which can compromise national security if they fall into the wrong hands. My take is that the unit lost an item of cryptographic hardware or software.

[dixierat22]

A piece of 'sensitive equipment' probably has to do with some kind of commo gear. Like an encrytion device of some sort. I was in the 82nd and the company I was assigned to lost an M-60 machinegun on a jump. We searched for 4 hours for that weapon, which the jumper lost on exit from a C-130, but we didn't get locked down. BUT, lose or even misplace a piece of senstive comm gear, the powers that be get REAL upset....

[Stingray51]

That's not true at all. The US is about as egalitarian as it can get and still preserve any degree of efficiency. My guess is that the officers were stuck on site just like the troops. That is not a class system. Yes, the military does require a rank structure and a chain of command. You are not suggesting the troops should have a union like the Dutch Army does, are you?

[DK Zimmerman]

Please don't mis-understand, I never said officers couldn't or never went on power trips, I was merely pointing out that in the case of a missing sensitive item, power trips were just about the last thing on their minds.

The practice of "locking down" when an item goes missing is SOP. Quite literally, if the chain of command hadn't locked down, THAT would have been interpreted as a major failing, i.e. lack of urgency and/or concern. Officers (some) do go on power trips. This ain't one of them (by all accounts).

The phrase "sensitive items" in the Army at least, generally signifies an expensive and pilfer-able item, a weapon, or ammunition/explosives. It does include a variety of commo gear, especially cypher stuff. On the whole, however, it does not include classified material, which is referred to in that manner.

[cynicom]

51....

As a "passenger" in SAC, it was always interesting, at the end of a flight, to check the manifest, to see who all had been on the flight with us. The desk jockeys dreaded those 16 hour jobs, so they would get someone to fudge their names in on the manifest. Four hours a month was needed for flight pay, in one day they were all caught up.

This was happening all the time, until one gentleman crossed the wrong enlisted "passenger". Being an officer and a gentleman, he was docked 1200 bucks and given a written reprimand. Now, it does give leave for one to wonder what the consequences would have been for an enlisted person.

[cynicom]

DK....

In SAC, we had major crashes on a frequent basis. It was common practice to clean up missing inventory for the squadron for everything that might have conceivably been on the aircraft, from sensitive equipment to wristwatches,always lost a bunch of those.