A Reflection on Apostasy

The Diocese Report/DRBlog ^ | Wednesday, August 14, 2002 | Brian Mershon

[HeadOn]

I dunno, allend. I've never seen that before, but It doesn't look quite right to me. I agree that Christ died for all mankind, but unless you are telling me that's what the quote is talking about, reading it by itself doesn't plainly say it, to me.

Do you have the context of the quote that makes it more clear?

[jammer]

But I will look into my own heart, right now. So post your response, but I won't be answering.

[Aliska]

I don't have scriptures handy. If you are really interested, this has been discussed before.

My understanding of the passage you quoted is that there is no eternal condemnation which doesn't necessarily mean that we still don't have to pay for or be punished for the consequences of our sins, even though our souls have been cleansed of them.

A person can get a disease from committing a sexual sin. The sin can be forgiven right off but the disease remains and we all believe that God can heal the disease if he chooses to do so.

[exmarine]

In others words, such people neglect the lesson of literary genres. They do not ask what is the genre of Genesis 1-3. It is actually an ancient story, made up to serve as a vehicle for teaching some things that really happened, chiefly: God made all things, in some special way He made the first pair (we leave room for possible theistic evolution, one that sees the need of God's intervention every time higher being appears), that He gave them some command (we do not know if it was about a fruit tree - that may be stage dressing in the story, something not asserted), that they violated His orders and fell from favor (= lost grace and so did not have it to pass on to their children).

Whose right? Jesus or the Rev. Most? Jesus said: But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. Mark 10:6. Rather plain isn't it. What does "from the beginning mean" if it doesn't mean "from the beginning"? Most is following the lead of Aquinas in that he is trying to "synthesize" pagan/naturalistic believes with Chrstianity. I reject his synthesis on the grounds that it contradicts scripture. Hegel was good at such synthesis. First, you dispense with "antithesis" - either/or arguments must be rejected; then you post some syncretic view that changes the meaning of "is" and voilla! - you have Most's essay. Hegel would be proud of Most.

[exmarine]

If you can't back it up with scripture, then your opinion is worthless. I am only interested in truth.

[Vermont Lt]

When I was a kid, my mother warned me about discussing politics and religion with people I did not know, or had just met. She felt that nothing good could come of it.

That is why I love FR. It allows me to do just what my mother warned me about. It is absolutely delicious to see all of you guys/gals beating each other blind with absolutely no chance of changing each others positions.

I love it!

[exmarine]

Allend, you are a polite writer and I appreciate that. However, if Genesis is allegory, then original sin is also allegory. You can't get reality from allegory. If original sin is allegory (doesn't really exist), then there is no need for a Savior; if there is no need for a Savior, then there is no need for Jesus; if there is no need for Jesus, then why do catholics go to confession?

[stuartcr]

What if the church interprets the word of God differently than you? Is it still wrong?

[exmarine]

Any Catholic theologian will tell you that Islam is a Catholic heresy. Mohammad rejected the pagan religion of his day and was strongly influnced by Catholicism. He borrowed his major doctrines from Catholicism and rejected the ones he didn't like. He borrowed the Catholic scriptures but interpreted them as he chose and added some more doctrines of his own.

Yes, but that is not what the catechism is saying. It is saying the opposite. It is clearly not a heresy according to the catechism. This is dangerous stuff and it's A ANTI-CHRIST LIE.

[jjm2111]

To become closer to God.

[Aliska]

I am only interested in truth.

Then quit lying about the door.

I'm sorry you find my opinion worthless. I don't have time to dig through the scriptures, but there is a passage where Jesus says the last penny must be paid.

[exmarine]

Oh well, it contradicts your interpretation of scripture, at any rate.

Then perhaps you would like to parse Mark 10:6 for me...interpret it another way that what is plain and see how successful you are.

[exmarine]

I'm sorry you find my opinion worthless. I don't have time to dig through the scriptures, but there is a passage where Jesus says the last penny must be paid.

You shouldn't spout stuff you can't back up. It doesn't speak well for your credibility.

[Aliska]

It doesn't speak well for your credibility.

You shouldn't lie about what catholics believe. In the book of Revelation, it plainly says all liars will be outside the city. Does that opinion matter to you?

[berned]

Guys, let me post a direct quote out of the Koran, then a direct quote out of the Roman Catholic Cathechism...(emphasis mine)

From the Koran: [4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Jesus) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

From the Roman Catholic Cathechism: 841. "The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.'[LG 16; cf. NA 3.]"

The Koran specifically teaches that Jesus DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS. A complete repudiation of the "Holiest of Holies" of the Christian belief -- and Roman Catholicism ACCEPTS that!

[stuartcr]

There is only one God, regardless of how one sees Him, or what one calls Him. It can't be otherwise.