Agness, Oregon Residents receive fire evacuation warning

"The eco economic terrorists don't want a single board foot of timber ever removed from any national forest or state forest. That is their goal!"

Yeah...and how many of them live in concrete block houses with not stick of wood contained in either the construction of their homes OR their furniture?

...Sort of like animal rights wackos out protesting people wearing fur...while the "protestors" are wearing leather coats, leather belts and leather shoes....and proudly eating vegetarian diets.

I have been away a lot trying to get ready for school and doing other duties, but will try to watch for info!

The advisory did not affect whitewater rafting along the wild and scenic section of the Rogue River, or jetboat tours from Gold Beach, said Mathison.

Why not?

OK...I finally got around to rereading that article after THOROUGH caffeination. You're right; it does seem to be proposing mechanical thinning, as well as backing controlled burns (once the thinning of brush and trees in some areas makes that possible.)

There are a couple of things the article doesn't touch on...1:) the 2000 wildfire season, which I also know intimately, due to the fact that Hubby still fought fires then: The reason thet Forestry was so slow in thinning the forests is that Bill Clinton "rerouted" funding for forest management in order to "aquire" several hundred million acres of forest as part of his "environmental legacy". That is why the funding wasn't there. Bubba took it.

2:) While complaining about funding, the author is perhaps unaware of the highly unpopular "Farm Bill" signed recently by President Bush. See, the forestry Department and Parks Department are only a couple of the zillions od OTHER departments, which are all headed by...the United States Department of Agriculture. I don't remember off the top of my thoroughly caffeinated but still tired head, but I READ the farm bill because of the bickering and found that around SEVENTY PERCENT of the budget increase for the so-called "Farm Bill" is slated for the Forestry Department. Another thing I doscovered was how few FReepers know just how many departments the USDA encompasses, but that's beside the point.

Here's another problem:

"Other foresters are frustrated at the long wait necessary to get proposed thinning projects through the environmental review process required by the National Environmental Protection Act. This can take as long as two years and proposed thinning projects across the country are on hold awaiting action"

Weelll....if he can't find the way clear cut out the EPA, perhaps the president can write an EO cutting red tape, or at least streamline the review process. With the amount of funding increased for Forestry, he must have something in mind. Mechanical thinning, allowing commercial logging (PARKS DOES IT) as well as controlled burns are probably it.

Sheesh...I'm still so slow on the uptake that I'm five minute behind MYSELF.

Correction to my previous post: that is STATE PARKS DEPARTMENTS DO IT

Curry County Reporter
Gold Beach, Oregon
Hot, windy weather anticipated Wednesday - The Florence Fire is simply going to get bigger according to Dick Fleishman, one of the public relations specialists working on the West Florence Fire. The entire Florence Fire encompassed 241,282 acres as of Tuesday morning. The weather is anticipated to change on Wednesday with high temperatures, winds and low humidity combining to create optimum conditions for the fire to spread.
A huge break line is being constructed spanning 60 miles from the Agness area to northern California. While much of the break line will use existing roads, other areas will have to be bulldozed or even hand dug. Work is also taking place on the roads with hundreds of firefighters cutting brush and small trees and moving them across the road, in an effort to remove as much fuel as possible. Larger trees are being limbed to remove the ladder fuel in preparation for the backburn, according to Fleishman. The work is physically demanding in hot conditions with steep terrain. Hundreds of crews of 20 are tackling this work.
Fleishman explained during a tour of the area on Tuesday that the fire was very active Monday in the Silver Peak area. Brush which has regenerated following the 1987 Silver Fire is fueling the flames.
The fire has been broken into multiple divisions to get a manageable span of control for each group of firefighters.
“This is a very organized system,” Fleischman explained. He added that the lines being constructed are an indirect line.
“We can’t do a direct fire line due to not enough resources,” Fleischman stated. An indirect line will give the opportunity to burn back to the fire’s main lines, creating a burnout area or black line.
“The only safe line is a black line,” Fleishman stated. He said the objective on the north part of the area is to create a work line to protect Agness.
“That’s the big emphasis,” he noted.
If and when the burnouts begin, a slow, controlled burn is started. Success can increase the chance of stopping the fire.
In addition to the work above Agness, the southern end of the fire near Wildnerness Reserve was also the focus of attention.
“There’s not enough personnel,” Fleishman stated. “There’s a lot of stinking fuel out there.”
Fleishman explained that the communities are now some of the team’s highest priorities. In addition, there are measures being taken to try and stop the spread of the Port Orford Cedar Root Rot disease. That includes treating the water with Clorox bleach when the water has been lifted out of infected basins.
“Anything that can make it difficult — this fire has,” Fleishman stated, pointing out the steep, rugged terrain.
The major concern is for firefighter safety. As of 6 p.m. Monday a total of 934 personnel were on staff for the West Florence Fire, with more on the way. The combined total for east and west staff was 2,828. If the firefighters which are working the Sour Biscuit Fire on the south end of the county and into northern California are included, there are closer to 4,000 on the fire. The crew is international with five crews from Canada staged at the Event Center.
Safety zones are being created one to two acres in size. To create a safety zone all fuel is removed (brush, trees, logs, etc) with the ground scraped by bulldozers. If this zone has to be used, Fleishman said, it creates an area where a firefighter can go and not have to deploy the emergency shelter.
“When you think of the size of this fire,” Fleischman pointed out of the safety zone. “This is not even a postage stamp.”
Every person which works in the area is required to carry a fire shelter with them and wear fire clothes and boots.
A crew leader for one of the Canadian teams, Mike Turcotte of Slave Lake, Alberta, said he and his crew had been in the area since Sunday.
“There’s great organization down here,” Turcotte stated. “It’s nothing but impressive.” He said his crew’s morale is real high and it’s been a great experience for them. Turcotte said he had some briefing on the area prior to arriving from one Canadian who had worked on the Silver Fire. As of Tuesday there were 129 Canadians fighting the fire and more were anticipated.
“The fire continues its relentless march toward the Agness-Illahe area,” said Curry County Emergency Services Coordinator Mike Murphy on Monday. “Much effort is being expended to keep the fire from reaching the Shasta Costa drainage. Efforts are also being expended to prevent the fire from crossing Lawson Creek. Work continues on structural triage and preparation operations. “ Questions for Murphy can be directed to 247-3208 or email MurphyM@co.curry.or.us
The county is compiling a list of volunteer resources including places for storage of vehicles, other goods, domestic animals and livestock. Those able to volunteer are asked to call Chip Weinert, Resource Management Coordinator, at 247-3272.
Those wishing fire information can call 247-2486 and 247-2509.
Most forest roads, including Bear Camp are now closed. Bear Camp is one of the roads set to become a fire line, Murphy said.
“Please refrain from traveling on any forest roads unless it is necessary,” stated Murphy. “There will be a lot of traffic from fire resources on the road. Extra traffic will mean more frequent accidents. We appreciate the cooperation of those who have refrained from traveling on the forest roads since our last announcement.”
Heavy equipment has been staging on the beach loop road. The Event Center on the Beach and Gold Beach High School are creating space for operations and tent camping.
“You don’t get a much better fire camp location,” Fleischman stated, referring to the beach location. Fleishman also marveled at the area’s attributes. “It’s a pretty piece of the earth — there’s no doubt about it.” But he also noted that “everything’s big here… big trees, big hills.”
When observing the smoke boiling off the mountains, Fleischman noted that dark smoke is not favorable as far as the fire goes.
“The darker the smoke — the worse it gets as far as intensity,” he stated. “Usually if it’s black — something’s cranking.”
Fleishman added that fire burns in mosaics — with portions burning to the ground, others smoldering slowly and some areas left alone.
“It’s been burning this way for centuries,” Fleischman stated. “It’s good for diversity (of plants and wildlife).”
However, when human values are at risk, such as homes and watersheds, action must be taken.
Flieschman added that it’s also important for residents to build protection around their own homes.
“We’ll always have fire,” he explained. “We just have to understand our role and make ourselves as safe as possible.
This fire and others throughout the nation have the national teams stretched real thin, with nearly every individual and equipment available committed.
“Fire season has been so long a lot of our hot shots are stretched (to their limits),” Fleishman said. It’s long days of arduous work with a policy of 16 hours of work, eight hours of rest… for the firefighters; however, even those hours can be stretched during critical times.
National Guard members stand guard at the closed forest roads.
Gold Beach area residents have been opening their arms to the firefighters, according to Susan Mathison of the fire information team. A few of the gestures include donations of paperback books from the Bookworm Bookstore, donuts courtesy of Backwood Homes Magazine and boxes of homemade sandwiches for firefighters being taken to the Agness Guard station from the area’s residents. The Oregon Department of Transportation has helped, too, putting road closure information on their automated reader signs.
The American Red Cross is prepared to open a shelter at Riley Creek School on Sixth Street in Gold Beach, should the need arise to evacuate due to the wildfires.

Geez...it it keeps getting biggier, they'll start calling the older Oldtimer teams in off standby.

This fire is HORRENDOUS....there are no WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE IT. Heck....I was sputtering and resorting to a thesaurus during the 2000 wildfire season...2002 is going to be WORSE!!

I gotta log off and get some supper and phone calls made.

Be safe, and you're in my prayers!!

Ask Sierra Wasp about the cozy relationship between the white water raft companies, the Green Jihadists, the florist service (used to be Forest Service) and the release of water from dams to facilitate their eco trips down stream.

Just make sure your Nomex fire fighting suit is on.

Hey Gramps. I was doing some research and ran across this, did you see it??

Kfalls http://www.sierratimes.com/02/08/05/arjj080502.htm

Oregon: Time to Fight Fire With Fire

By J.J. Johnson

Published 08. 4. 02 at 20:26 Sierra Time

We have received numerous postings from readers of the transcripted interview with an Helicopter Wildfire Fighter on the Lars Larson Show back on August 1. There have also been requests that The Sierra Times review and expand on aprevious challenge we made to all local communities concerning firefighting out west. With the recent legislative action by Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, Sierra Times believes that pointing fingers and calling congressmen is unproductive. More direct measures should be taken to fire the Timber Rock and other fires in the West.

In the interview, it was reported that the Carson Helicopter has a contract with the United States Forestry Service (USFS) to carry water via 9 aircraft flying on the Toolbox fire, Timbered Rock, and the Southbisquit Fire. With the cooperation of the Oregon State Department of Forestry, a dry pond was found within striking distance of the fires, and water was being supply by an armada of water trucks. ". We were just on the other side of the US Forest Service line and we were within their boundaries", said Mark Lindamood of Carson Helicopter. "So they came up [August 1] and shut the pond down and they gated it and prohibited trucks from coming in", he said. The apparent reason was lack of a permission request and the fact that what is called a "Dip Site Manager" was not on site.

This and other bureaucratic regulations and red tape from the USFS have damaged the ability to fight the fires effectively, threatening property, communities and even lives. As a result, Oregonians are being asked to contact their congressmen and complaint. Instead, we submit the following actions take place:

1) The Carson Helicopter company should immediately suspend any and all service for the United States Forestry Service. They should make it known their services will be available to any state or local agency dedicated to fire fighting.

2) All counties affected by the fires should declare a state of emergency, if they have not done so already. The emergency should include the power of the local authorities to use all means at its disposal to protect life and property in the area, and for the county's district attorneys to enforce such measures.

3) Oregon State Police, the State Department of Forestry and the Local county officers should immediately remove the fence installed by the USFS and provide protection for water trucks to the pond.

4) Helicopter transportation of water should resume, but under the jurisdiction of the Oregon State Department of Forestry. Any attempts to prevent the lawful duty of country officials should result in those people being taken into custody. Suspects can be held for at least 48 hours - while firefighting continues.

5) In the event of USFS not allowing flights, pilots should adhere to the FAA pilot regulations and file an injunction against the USFS to complain that their policies are placing lives in danger. County District Attorneys should be compelled to file injunctions against any attempt to prevent fighting wildfires by any other entity during a fire emergency. This would at least slow down the USFS long enough to let you get a hand on the fire.

6) Media should work covertly in order to review the work of federal fire-fighters. Sierra Times readers should volunteer their help, and water to the firefighters if and when needed in order to gain access and to ensure adequate fire fighting is in effect.

It seems the problem lies in the public 'giving' authority to federal folks to put out the forest fires under a myth this is actually the priority of the Forestry Service. Their goal is to maintain the bureaucracy. In both Arizona and Colorado it has been shown that local authorities taking matters into their own hands is the best solution to fighting wildfires. County and state governments must take this matter seriously. When lives and property are at stake, there is not only a duty, but a responsibility to take action - against federal authority if necessary.

Nor should anti-logging or the Endangered Species Act (ESA) prohibit local residents, county governments, or state governments from taken action when needed. The South Dakota exemption proves that these types of regulations are hazardous to forests, wildlife and property. Quoting a letter from the Sierra Club and the Wilderness society on the matter of the Daschle amendment, ".The amendment would help to reduce hazardous fuel loads in a manner that protects communities and the benefits of recreation, clean water and fish and wildlife habitat on the Black Hills National Forest.". Needless to say this would work for other areas as well. So why wait for federal permission?

There will be some that will call these proposals extreme and even illegal. We are dealing with dangerous situations that demand immediate attention. Simply calling on Congressmen to take action requires a host of calls just to get attention (they're on summer break as well). The actions listed above are immediate and would put immediate attention on the situation. We are at a point where we believe federal forest agents do not want to push the envelope with local authorities. In this fire season alone, they have already been roundly criticized by governors and congressmen, there are two USFS employees currently in custody for being responsible for much of the burn acreage this year. Most important, we feel that no federal agency wants a standoff with others for wanting to fight a forest fire - not in this political season.

In closing, we would like to thank Lars Larson of KXL News Radio 750 AM in Portland and Carson Helicopter for bringing light to a grave situation. But the solution requires action be taken on the ground immediately. Simply complaining will not work. The western fires have reached a point where areas not ablaze are suffering from the impact of this fire season with increased ash and smoke in the atmosphere, and loss of revenue.

We cannot make this statement more clear: We are well beyond the time where we can depend on the federal government to battle the disasters out west. There are people, homes, and communities in peril. The time for action is now. If we allow federal regulations to prevent firefighting causing destruction of live and property, we will only have ourselves, and not the federal government to blame.

Granof8, thanks, there is some scary stuff in this article from the Pilot:

COUNTY OFFICIALS DECLARE STATE OF EMERGENCY Curry Coastal Pilot, Published: August 7, 2002

A declaration of a state of emergency was requested of the governor Monday by the Curry County commissioners, while the top fire official said his defensive line has a 40 percent chance of holding.

That means that there is a 60% chance of the defensive line not holding for those living in Brookings to Gold Beach. Not good odds in favor of those West, SW and North of the Kalmiopsis uncontrolled blaze.

Martin said, He said the defensive fire line will be established first to protect Agness, and the Wilderness Retreat community in the Chetco River valley.

Both are being threatened by the 235,000-acre Florence fire burning in the Kalmiopsis Wilderness. It is expected to join the smaller Sour Biscuit fire in the south Kalmiopsis.

This is the first admission that basically the entire fire is burning out of control in the Kalmiopsis Wildnerness area. The Kalmiopsis Wildnerness area without roads, timber removal or or brush removal as per the Green Rural Cleansers is now a massive and uncontrollable fire.

Martin said as of Monday afternoon, the Florence fire was about 14 nautical miles from human habitation in the Chetco Valley.

He was also worried about a push the fire was making on its northern frontier toward the Rogue River.

Given the terrain and weather conditions, said Martin, he does not want the fire spreading down the river valleys in Curry County.

Basically by saying he does not want the fire spreading down the river valleys into the populated areas of Curry County, there isn't a damn thing they can do to stop if if the weather is on the fire's side.

Martin then said: "He said the middle segments of the line are being ignored now while all efforts go to the north and south.

Whether those segments can be built before the fire advances too far west all depends on the weather, said Martin.

He said the fire will probably go beyond the line in some places, and be held in others.

The top priority, said Martin, is human lives, both of firefighters and the public. Property has to take second place.

Then Martin said: "He said fixed-wing tankers would not be successful, given the terrain, against the Florence fire. Large helicopters, which can target specific hot spots, would be much more useful. Martin is expecting 10 more fire crews, however. He said some are from Canada, and are experiencing fighting fires in vertical terrain for the first time.

Folks if you haven't seen this terrain, vertical is the way to describe it. This is why it would be dangerous for the fixed wing aircraft to try and douse the fires. It will be dangerous for the heliocopter pilots. They will probably be reserved to save homes in the fire's path in places like Agness and the Upper Chetco river valley. He said firefighters are not being put directly on the fire boundary yet. "It's not worth putting people at risk," he said.

He is an honest man here. He knows that if he places firefighters on the western boundaries, they could be killed if the fire from the Kalmiopsis Druid Wildnerness decides to go ballistic and runs down hill to the Ocean before it stops.

Then the final really revealing remark comes at the last of this article:

As for building roads into the Kalmiopsis Wilderness to give firefighters quicker access in the future, Darbyshire said the Wilderness Act of 1964 prohibits road-building.

So we could see an entire county in Southern Oregon burn up because of the no road Wilderness Act of 1964. Lets see who was president in 1964? Oh yeah, LBJ of the Great Society. What political party controlled both houses of Congress? Oh yeah, the Rats did. So this enviral tinder box was set up in 1964 by the Green Jehadists, LBJ and their rat congress. 38 years later, two counties in Oregon have suffered great damage.

The Kalmiopis Wilderness is burning out of control with zero roads and threatening to burn up two counties in Oregon.

Are we about to see the ultimate Rural Cleansing tool of the Green Jihadists, uncontrolled fire due to their Druid agendas destroy two counties in America? The al Qaeda thugs could only have wet dreams about this much devastation on American land. It is nothing for the Green Jihadists!

I'm glad to hear where Carry_Okie is. Sounds like he's got a busy few days ahead and I have a radio interview for him when he gets home. We still have smoke in our valley. It's been so long since we've seen blue skies that the grandkids think this is normal!

We live in SW Alaska near Bristol Bay, and a few days ago it was clear out, but the visibilty was terrible because of the fires which were hundreds of miles away from here! I was wondering what on earth was going on when I looked out the window and there were all these wierd smoke layers hovering over everything. You could smell it too. Today it's all clear out though.

Wow. I've been preoccupied for the last couple of days or so and haven't even seen the news. Sounds like some big fires. It's been an unusually dry summer where we are, hot too. The gardens around here are doing well with all the heat and sunlight. Usually the summers are grey and misty in these parts.

A couple of days ago when everything outside was saturated with smoke, at first I wondered what in the heck was going on. Then some people in town said there were fires up around McGrath and the smoke was coming all the way here. I had a rather horrible week, so I didn't pay as much attention to this stuff like I usually do. I didn't even post on FR for a few days due to some very bad news, but it all turned out to be okey afterall. I have to admit I haven't watched the Alaska news lately, so they may be talking about it.

By the way, on an interesting side note, a couple of weeks ago a whole troop of FEMA guys flew in our little town. They were flying all over the state and checking out Alaska "On orders from President Bush" according to one guy. They stayed in this area for a few days then took off for some other part of Alaska. I still wonder what that was all about. Why would they want to go all over rural Alaska?

No halibut fishing in the interior! Salmon fishing though. About containment, there are millions upon millions of acres that have no access other than by air, and none to very few people in certain areas, even populated villages have few buildings and people. Fairbanks being in the sub-arctic region has trees, but it's not a dense forest like in northern California or northern NY, etc., the trees thin out fast the further north you go (which isn't too far) and then it turns into low bush terrain.

Most people don't realize the vastness of Alaska, and that if you divide Alaska in two then Texas becomes the 3rd largest state and not the 2nd.

As far as the fires go, this is the first that I've heard of it as we are currently, and temporarily, out of state. Thanks for thinking of us and have a great day!

We are currently, and temporarily, out of state. Thanks for the update.

Thanks for the PING!

I imagine that there is just so much open space up there that fighting fire only starts when it starts threatening populations...They are so far from support that it'd be impossible to fight effectively. Just a guess.

You imagine wrong. We live almost every summer with our sky blanked out by smoke from these dam$%d fires.

I've been in this state for forty-four years. Before statehood, even..

When I was a kid, we didn't have these conditions. BLM,and later State Forestry used to attack most fires aggresively. They used to hire EFF's (emergency firefighters),bythe hundreds (been one myself in my youth).Then the powers that be decided to let most of them burn. The excuse was to let more brush grow up for moose browse,etc. I think the real reason is money. Doesn't money run everything?

I wonder when a class action suit is going to start up on behalf of those of us who have asthma and other respiratory diseases, some of us can hardly breathe at times.

As for the forests, I can show you dead trees still standing from a fire in 1958. There are acres of black spruce standing 20 years after a fire with their bark falling off. They aren't much of a tree, but they are replaced by alder and birch. In some cases these are only 8-10 feet tall .

As for fighting these fires, transportation is so much better now than it was then, that this excuse is a joke...

Thanks to you an other Alaska members. Thanks for the updates.