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Why do wealthy Americans support socialism? (Talking points requesed)

Posted on 08/01/2002 5:07:22 AM PDT by banjo joe

Asking your input, Freepers. I need talking points. Many of my liberal acquaintances can't understand why a wealthy individual (e.g., Ted Turner) would support socialism in America. I have some ideas, but welcome yours, thanks!


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
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1 posted on 08/01/2002 5:07:22 AM PDT by banjo joe
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To: banjo joe
Socialism, despite what they say, isn't about helping the poor but about increasing the power of the elites. Ask Mao if he supported socialism, "for the people," and then ask one of the 20 million people killed in the cultural revolution if they agree the policies were "the greatest good for the greatest number."
2 posted on 08/01/2002 5:10:20 AM PDT by coloradan
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To: banjo joe
socialism keeps the poor poor...

and the rich rich...

it's all about control - control the wealth and you decide who gets rich...

the biggest hustle since PT Barnum is what socialism is...

turner wants to be safe in his wealth...

he doesn't want any competition...

3 posted on 08/01/2002 5:10:53 AM PDT by krodriguesdc
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To: banjo joe
Why do wealthy Americans support socialism? (Talking points requesed)

Because they're already on top of the hill. Socialist policies hurt the little guy more than the big guy, it eliminates the upstart competition that may threaten the dominance of the big guys. Raising taxes on a man that makes $1 billion a year isn't going to hurt his standard of living. Raising taxes on a small business owner who's trying to expand his business to be a competitor with the big guys is highly destructive.

I think that's one reason people like Perot don't mind higher taxes, anyway. They've already made theirs. Higher tax rates mostly hurt those who haven't made theirs yet.

4 posted on 08/01/2002 5:16:30 AM PDT by #3Fan
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To: banjo joe
Economically speaking, the idle rich, or 'landed aristocracy' might be inclined to politically favor an inflationary society. Their property, whether it is stock in a dividend paying company or real estate, their assets 'increases in value' with inflation as paper money's value decreases. Culturally speaking, in order to keep the nouveau riche out of their circles, it is important to have a high marginal tax rate on income to reduce the reward on innovation and risk.
5 posted on 08/01/2002 5:17:54 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: banjo joe
Read the Thomas Sowell book "The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation As a Basis for Social Policy"

The idea is that liberals actually have contempt for the common man and therefore try to do what they must so that they can have enough power to affect their lives.

Certainly explains part of the Clintons MO.

6 posted on 08/01/2002 5:19:47 AM PDT by tcostell
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To: banjo joe
My ultra rich cousins are some of the most socialist people I know. They all come from lower to middle class backgrounds.

The only reason I can think of is that they feel "guilty" about their "good fortune" and want to help the "little guy." Of course, they want the government to do all the helping with tax payer money and not with their own money (they have a platoon of tax attorneys/accountants to pay as least amount of taxes as possible).

They are against vouchers yet send their kids to private schools. They are all for nationalized medicine but will go to "private" doctors if that ever happens. They are all for government restricting the use of private land as long as their own properties are not affected. They are all for redistributing wealth and long as it is not their wealth. They are for banning guns because they have private security and can live in places "where their is no crime."

Discussions are pointless as they do not respond to logical arguments nor facts.

And yes, they think Clinton is the greatest president we have ever had

7 posted on 08/01/2002 5:25:17 AM PDT by 2banana
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To: banjo joe
Socialism is a psy-ops strategy to have your competitors defeat themselves.

Ted "former Mr. Hanoi Jane Fonda" uses every government, political and charitable connection for his self-gain while proclaiming his altruism.

The Socialists, like the Brits, love the idea of a royal class governing the peasant masses. 90% taxation ensures that no grunt will ever rise up in a single generation to compete with them. The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor - nobody moves in a class-oriented society.

Thank God for Capitalism.

8 posted on 08/01/2002 5:25:34 AM PDT by Enduring Freedom
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To: banjo joe
Dear Joe,

Rather than treat you to an extended soliloquy, I shall direct you to a very valuable little book, all of whose observations are relevant: Ludwig von Mises's The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality. It's short, written for the intelligent layman, and every page is golden.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

9 posted on 08/01/2002 5:27:39 AM PDT by fporretto
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To: banjo joe
Federal tax code and federal spending make the federal government a partner in every business, especially businesses favored by federal tax code and spending. When a business gets wealthy, the government gets wealthy too. Wealthy people support this partnership because it reduces their risk of business failure. Many wealthy people are beneficiaries of past and current federal tax and spending policies.
10 posted on 08/01/2002 5:28:40 AM PDT by Tralfaze McWatt
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To: banjo joe
I'd be very cynical of anyone who offers an argument that makes the rich sound like "the other". Most of these arguments (I'll wager) are offered by people who are not wealthy themselves nor are they intimately familiar with anyone who is really wealthy. The arguments they offer are really only "class envy" and they are easy to spot. They will all have a reference to "keeping down the little guy" or "hindering the competition", or they will apply dismissive labels to the wealthy like "landed gentry".

These arguments are pieced together from the observable facts that the people do actually see in their own lives, but the conclusions about the motives are consistently incorrect, and based upon their own insecurities. I'm sure that there is someone somewhere who is expending effort to keep down the competition, but that effort is usually a waste of time. Better to work to stay ahead of the competition than work to keep the competition behind you.

The book I mentioned on the other hand, gets to the heart of the issue.

11 posted on 08/01/2002 5:40:38 AM PDT by tcostell
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To: banjo joe
Democrats, socialists . . . the game plan is nevertheless the same: people on the top manipulating the suckers on the bottom to keep down the people in the middle.

The real mystery isn't why the people at the top favor this game, but rather why on earth the people on the bottom would support a movement that can only succeed in keeping poor people poor?

12 posted on 08/01/2002 5:45:27 AM PDT by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: banjo joe
joe

When money is available to buy all desired creature comforts, the wealthy turn to intangible desires, usually power. This is true from the top of the pryamid down, the closer to the top one is with wealth the more apt he is to go for the whole ball of wax. The Rockefellers, Kennedys, Bushs are current examples.

13 posted on 08/01/2002 5:53:51 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: 2banana
The only reason I can think of is that they feel "guilty" about their "good fortune" and want to help the "little guy."

Bullseye. It is all about guilt. They can't live with the fact that some people won't do as well as others in a capitalist system.

14 posted on 08/01/2002 6:00:36 AM PDT by rrr51
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To: banjo joe
People who have been wealthy for a long time, particularly multi-generational rich, have accumulated a large network of connections. They know people. This network of contacts is a valuable asset

What system maximises the value of this asset? Socialism. In real socialism (as opposed to textbook socialism), you get places by trading favors, by knowing people, by playing games of politics and intrigue -- something like the court politics of the feudal age.

In both feudalism and socialism, you get "stuff" by having the king/Party allocate it to you, in exchange for your loyal support of the system -- not because you actually produce stuff to freely exchange with the peasants. The wealthy have always wanted to rise to the status of "nobleman" (high Party official), and have the power to destroy all who slight them. This is the appeal of "real" socialism: the power to destroy the wealth, position and lives of those who displease you.

15 posted on 08/01/2002 6:04:53 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: coloradan
Those of wealth can afford to send offspring to college. Socialists have clung to academia for a hundred years.

In 1960 "Robber Baron" Joe sent Joe Jr. to Harvard. Joe Sr. is a good man, but has little time to spend with Jr. Joe Jr. is pampered, young and impressionable at 18. He is also at an age of rebellion and naturally doesn't see eye to eye with Pop. After a couple of years of Marxist indoctrination he learns at school how "evil" his father and our Capitalistic society "really" are. Joe Jr. figures out what he will do with his inheritance after his "unenlightened, scumbag, capitalist" father dies.

GGG
16 posted on 08/01/2002 6:13:29 AM PDT by GaGaGarbled
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To: tcostell
The idea is that liberals actually have contempt for the common man and therefore try to do what they must so that they can have enough power to affect their lives.

The "common man" is the foot soldier of the socialist revolution. When the revolution is won, the footsoldiers will be lined up in front of trenches or gas chambers and disposed of. It happened in Nazi Germany (the night of the long knives), it happened in bolshevik Russia for example. The rich also do not want common africanhyphenamericans or any other unacceptable ethnic minority to be in their world other than just as soldiers. They hide their racism by appearing to be the champions of the downtrodden. As long as they are robbing us a gunpoint on payday (taxes) to pay for the welfare state, they know they will keep a significant number of their hyphen clients off their backs and out of their upscale neighborhoods.

17 posted on 08/01/2002 6:20:58 AM PDT by RushLake
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To: banjo joe
A wealthy socialist won't be taxed. Its for the fellow behind the other tree!
18 posted on 08/01/2002 6:21:58 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: banjo joe
Money can buy power, but what if one wants more power than money can buy?
19 posted on 08/01/2002 7:01:38 AM PDT by Salman
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To: RushLake
I don't like the guy, but it's hard for me to imagine Ted Kennedy lining up Teamsters to march them into the Gas Chamber. There are the rich, and there are socialists, but I haven't read anything in your rant that linked the two together.

I believe the reason is because they aren't together, but I'm open to facts to the contrary. (should I have capitalized "Facts"?)

20 posted on 08/01/2002 7:09:20 AM PDT by tcostell
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