Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: PoorMuttly
I'm not going to argue the issue about the superiority of the 10mm auto and the .45 ACP. Both will do the job. Both rounds are lethal, as is the 9mm.

The issue with regards to the original post has to do with flawed equipment (similiar to the initial release of the M-16), and is something that nobody really discussed. The Glock G20 was designed from scratch in short order (Glock not knowing the difference between a revolver and a semiautomatic at the time) for the Austrian military. Glock came up with something unique, a polymer (plastic) weapon. Since nobody had ever seen anything like that, the Austrians demanded that Glock's prototype shoot 8000 rounds with no more than 5 misfires. Well, it shot 10000 with only 1 misfire (failure to eject, as opposed failure to feed). Furthermore, it can be dropped into the dirt and still keep firing, and dropped for all angles of contact and not misfire. That's not bad in my book. Oh, by the way, the requirememt of 8000 rounds with 5 misfires was waived for any of the other contenders because it was assumed they could match that. Moreover, the very material a Glock is made out of can stand some very hot loads, and the manner how it flexes accomodates recoil rather well. In fact it has been demonstrated to do so better than all steel build weapons.

Anyway, the U.S. military looked into the Glock, but Glock wouldn't release the manufacturing rights, patents, etc. He wanted to reap what he sowed. Can you blame him? So the Beretta that actually is at fault is not the Beretta, but the U.S. production for military use model made by U.S corporations. Heck, we had that same problem back when the M-16 was first release. Colt said, you got to use these rounds (manufactured to these specs). Congress in their infinite wisdom said, we think these cheaper rounds are just as good. Sure they were, except at the cost of so many U.S. service members lives. That's why the M-16 obtained such a miserable reputation, and most likely why the Beretta in question is being maligned also.

While the .45 ACP might be tried and proven, is it the best technology? Well, lets just say the DC-3 is still flying.

94 posted on 08/01/2002 12:41:21 AM PDT by raygun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies ]


To: raygun
A long time ago I read a factory rep's written statement that the Beretta is a 10,000 round gun. I don't necessarily know the BEST mechanism, but it's plain to see how complicated the morass of 9mm pistols are, and what is better or worse about each of them....accompanied by a wide range of loads. A lot of experienced military personel never thought the .38 or 9mm were good choices for combat in the first place...and if our enemies are in fact drugged, I think we should see to it that our personnel use enough gun. That's what I think it's about, and that the gun should work right, the first time, at least.

You are evidently a person who knows about his equipment and why and how to use it, and I do not challenge that. I just say that whatever really works most of the time is what we should have, and that it is unfortunate in extreme to knowingly use deficient technology to accomodate the least physically equipped recruit. Pistols aren't for everyone, perhaps. As annoying as it is, I prefer a 1911 or revolver that's working than a great autopistol that has "issues." Handguns are pretty much last ditch weapons, when your rifle is not there, but having had times when the handgun is all there is, and what you have in it all you'll get...you hope it works REAL good, each time...and then some...like using it as a club. I tell you, if I could put a sword on a handgun, I would. I had an ancestor who used a flintlock pistol with a pick-axe on the grip pommel. It continued to work after it was empty. Not bad.
95 posted on 08/01/2002 1:23:41 AM PDT by PoorMuttly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies ]

To: raygun
Recalling that procurement mess that you described, unfortunate the Glock wasn't adopted. It would have been wrung-out by now, and a lot of information gained about a new, promising technology, and design. A steel one would make a good comparison. Military use (torture) is a great proving ground.

Personally, I suppose a 10mm would be my suggestion. Would love to hold my own "ball" experiments some day with the load...but without military and commercial popularity, I have not yet owned a 10...or even a .40...knowing I'd really like it, too. I get the most I can from my FN High Powers, which I happen to own, and like, and am tuning my expectations and training to...sticking with the cartridge because it is there, and not much else is, and working between Nyclad LHPs at standard or +P velocity, Federal JHP+P and NATO Ball...or Federal FMJs, pointy, wildly flat-shooting and penetrating well across the spectrum. .30, .355-357 is the downward limit for legit service sidearm for a long time now...and the larger bores stop more determined, deadly human threats with less shots than their smaller cousins, period. If you can hit with it, we know a 10 or .45 is the fighting pistol to have in your hand when the shooting starts.
96 posted on 08/01/2002 1:56:02 AM PDT by PoorMuttly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson