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To: raygun
Recalling that procurement mess that you described, unfortunate the Glock wasn't adopted. It would have been wrung-out by now, and a lot of information gained about a new, promising technology, and design. A steel one would make a good comparison. Military use (torture) is a great proving ground.

Personally, I suppose a 10mm would be my suggestion. Would love to hold my own "ball" experiments some day with the load...but without military and commercial popularity, I have not yet owned a 10...or even a .40...knowing I'd really like it, too. I get the most I can from my FN High Powers, which I happen to own, and like, and am tuning my expectations and training to...sticking with the cartridge because it is there, and not much else is, and working between Nyclad LHPs at standard or +P velocity, Federal JHP+P and NATO Ball...or Federal FMJs, pointy, wildly flat-shooting and penetrating well across the spectrum. .30, .355-357 is the downward limit for legit service sidearm for a long time now...and the larger bores stop more determined, deadly human threats with less shots than their smaller cousins, period. If you can hit with it, we know a 10 or .45 is the fighting pistol to have in your hand when the shooting starts.
96 posted on 08/01/2002 1:56:02 AM PDT by PoorMuttly
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To: PoorMuttly
I'll tell you what, regardless of what one is shooting, if the clip is empty and they're still coming, ones death is deserved.

DON'T tell me that it don't hurt to have holes poked into oneself. Not only that but those bullets are hot So when they come to rest they, well, they hurt. Moreover, I know what its like to get hit with a hardball, and a bullet is 100 times more than that and it goes through ones body and sprays out a whole bunch of tissue on the other side. Any bullet does that. The .38 Special is known for its ability of inducing hydrostatic shock. That means if one is hit in the shoulder or arm by such a round, the individual hit could very well die. NOT from any major trauma, but from the affect that the jello ripple has on cellular structure and cumulative affect on physiology.

I'm certainly not going to argue that punching a 1/2" hole into the corpus of an enemy will not cause them grief. You can't argue with me that a 10mm hole in the front side and a 1/4' hole on the back side won't also cause grief to the opponent.

All I know in both cases, they ain't getting up anymore. While in the former it might be because of hydrostatic shock, definately in the latter its because the means whereby that might've been accomplished was a spray of red out their backside.

Anyway, it comes down to preference.

ONE thing that can be said about the 10 is its effect against kevlar. Many in the know are on record saying that they'd prefer getting hit (if they were going to - heaven forbid) with a 12 gauge slug instead something else. A properly tuned 10mm auto slug will, at close range, go through pretty every body armour there is.

Personally, I think the military rifle of choice should be the M1. However, what do I know? I'm thinking that if the 30-30 isn't cutting it, then the Mossberg isn't going to save the day unless the General has a pretty damn good tactician. And if the General needs to rely on such a good tactician, then either the troops are incompetent due to lack of training, or the general is for the same reason (and the troops can be excused for his mistake with their death).

I don't know, that's just how I feel.

97 posted on 08/01/2002 3:29:57 AM PDT by raygun
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