Ohio's concealed carry law puts business owners who carry weapons under the gun

Ohio's concealed carry law puts business owners who carry weapons under the gun Chiree Mccain For Business First

McNamara had just defended a client in a murder case in Steubenville, and the jury had convicted his client on the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Before he left the courthouse, the family of the victim made threats against both client and attorney. So, as the county sheriff escorted McNamara to his car, the attorney asked if he might keep a handgun on the front seat beside him.

Many could see that as a reasonable request and a prudent gesture, but Ohio law sees the situation differently.

That makes it difficult, to say the least, for those who feel they need such protection. These people are, most often, managers and owners at bars, carryouts or similar establishments business people who carry a gun as they take deposits to the bank at night. Often, they own small businesses and cannot afford an armored car service.

"They're the ones left fending for themselves when they're getting their revenues to the bank at the end of the day," says Tony Fiore, director of labor and human resources policy at the Ohio Chamber of Commerce.

Technically, Ohioans are prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon or having a concealed weapon "ready at hand." The law allows for an affirmative defense under certain circumstances including while anyone is going to or from their place of business if they are particularly susceptible to criminal attack at the time but criminal defense attorneys say that's not good enough. Business owners charged with carrying a concealed weapon are likely to face a trial and would have to prove they had a good reason for carrying.

McNamara, who runs his own law office in downtown Columbus, says he's carried a gun for protection about half a dozen times during his 26 years in criminal defense, while investigating crime scenes or after receiving threats. He also has defended small business people who choose to carry a weapon on a daily basis.

"The problem with the statute is there aren't any clear answers, only questions," says McNamara. "It's awfully gray. If the jury believes he or she was justified in carrying concealed, based on the affirmative defenses in the statute, they'll find not guilty. It's all a matter of what the jury finds reasonable."

"There is absolutely no way to approach a legal authority in the State of Ohio, as a business owner or not, stating your reasons to carry a firearm, and then being given prior permission or refusal to do so. As a business owner or not, you must make that decision on your own ... and risk being given a decision after you are charged with committing a felony," says Jeff Garvas, founding president and executive director of Ohioans for Concealed Carry, a Cleveland-based nonprofit.

McNamara says an attorney he knows requested a letter from the county sheriff, agreeing that it would be prudent for him to carry a firearm in his circumstances.

"That's probably as close as you can come to having your defense in advance," McNamara says. "Even then, you could be arrested and charged."

In light of recent court cases and proposed legislation, Ohio's concealed carry law could change soon.

The Hamilton County Common Pleas Court struck down the ban on carrying concealed weapons, and the First Ohio District Appeals Court upheld the decision. The Ohio Supreme Court has issued an emergency stay to keep it in effect for now and is considering whether to review the case.

"I suspect it will be changed within a year, if not by the Supreme Court, then by the state legislature," McNamara says.

Some observers expect that in the end, the state will create a permit system for concealed carry. The Ohio House already has passed such a measure HB 274, which would require training and background checks in order to get a permit. The bill is awaiting approval from the Senate.

The proposed legislation would be an advantage to small business owners who want to carry a concealed weapon.

"They would know whether they're risking prison or not when they went about their business every day," McNamara says.

"Instead of carrying a gun and waiting to be taken to court to determine if your actions were prudent, a business owner will be able to apply for a license in advance," says Garvas.

Don Schmidt, a Columbus-area small business owner who asked that his business not be identified, says he would carry a firearm as a precautionary measure during deposits, if the ban were lifted.

"It would be just like putting a safety belt on in your car. You would feel safer," says Schmidt, who receives well over half his revenue in cash.

"Anyone who considers carrying a firearm should seek qualified legal advice," says Garvas. "I feel anyone carrying in today's environment should have a plan that they can fall back on, should they be arrested. That includes funding for bail, knowing how to conduct yourself if you are arrested, and having a lawyer who knows in advance what you may be calling about at 3:00 in the morning."

Because carrying a loaded, concealed weapon is a felony offense, small business owners risk spending time in jail and losing certain professional licenses if they are convicted.

"Why aren't you presumed innocent?" asks Max Kravitz, a partner at the law firm of Kravitz & Kravitz and a law professor at Capital University. "Instead of presuming citizens innocent, we are presuming them guilty and making them prove their innocence. Even if they're found not guilty, that's no consolation to someone who's been charged with an offense, whose fingerprints have been sent to all the databases, who's had to pay for an attorney."

Schmidt says he makes his deposits during the day and he doesn't feel the need to carry a concealed weapon. But if he felt threatened, the legal risks would not deter him.

"I'm not in a situation where I think I need it," he says. "But if I thought my life was in danger, I would carry, whether it was against the law or not."

Small business owners should think long and hard about whether a concealed weapon will actually make them safer, says Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, a Toledo-based nonprofit.

"Is somebody going to be able to remove that gun from you and use that gun against you?" she asks.

Hoover says FBI statistics show that there are only about 200 homicides justifiable as self-defense each year.

"The numbers don't point to the fact that people are successfully defending themselves," she says. "We're fooled into believing we'll all be safer if we have a gun."

While lifting the ban on concealed carry would remove the legal pitfalls for business owners who carry, it could create new problems.

"All those business owners are going to have those customers and those employees walking through their door with a concealed weapon. They're not going to be safer; they're actually increasing their risk," Hoover maintains.

Garvas says there was no "mayhem in the streets" during the period between the Hamilton County court's rejection of the concealed carry ban and the Ohio Supreme Court's stay.

"During that two-week period, there were absolutely no problems with individuals carrying concealed, and there was even a mini race riot on a Cincinnati street corner," he says.

Still, the Ohio Chamber of Commerce wants to protect employers' rights to prohibit concealed weapons on their property.

Fiore says employers don't want the added liability or the potential for higher insurance rates that might come with allowing weapons onto the premises. He says the chamber has worked to keep the workplace exemptions in HB 274.

"If you take away that ability to prohibit weapons or handguns in the workplace, you prohibit them from doing what they're trying to do, and that's providing a safe work place for their employees and customers," Fiore says.

</>"I suspect it will be changed within a year, if not by the Supreme Court, then by the state legislature," McNamara says.

I don't expect much to happen before the November elections.

"The numbers don't point to the fact that people are successfully defending themselves," she says. "We're fooled into believing we'll all be safer if we have a gun."

If this were true it would be safer to attack someone with a gun than someone without. Of course both common sense and the facts say otherwise.

Rule of Law, R.I.P.

"The numbers don't point to the fact that people are successfully defending themselves," she says. "We're fooled into believing we'll all be safer if we have a gun."

If this were true it would be safer to attack someone with a gun than someone without. Of course both common sense and the facts say otherwise.

Rule of Law, R.I.P.

What a bunch of crap. We have a right to defend ourselves. I don't care what the State or Federal government says. I'm in the delayed entry program to become a Marine and I swore to the Constitution of the United States and I know what the Constitution says and I'll fight to my death defending my rights.

Hoover says FBI statistics show that there are only about 200 homicides justifiable as self-defense each year. "The numbers don't point to the fact that people are successfully defending themselves," she says. "We're fooled into believing we'll all be safer if we have a gun."

Typical gun grabber BS. The numbers she cites only relate to justifiable homicides. But you don't need to kill someone to protect life or property - and she ignores every single instance in which this is true, which is the overwhelming majority. Does she measure the success of her police department by how many criminals it killed? (Or, the righteousness of the federal government by how many people it has killed?) If not, it is stupid and even intentionally deceptive to only count how many justifiable homicides have been committed by armed citizens.

Did you fill out a questionaire something to the effect; "If you were ordered to fire upon American civilian, would you?"

No, I never filled out something like that. Even if I did, I'd never fire upon American civilians.

Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, a Toledo-based nonprofit group asked
"Is somebody going to be able to remove that gun from you and use that gun against you?" She went on to say that FBI statistics show that there are only about 200 homicides justifiable as self-defense each year..........

She should consider these two things.
1. It is impossible to take a gun away from someone who has it drawn, aimed, and is not afraid to fire it at a bad guy comming within 3 feet to attack.
2. That is 200 less bad guys that don't have to go to court and become repeat offenders. One last item to consider. How many attacks were foiled without the need to fire, only the threat of the weapon was used?

It sounds like in Ohio you have two choices, jail or dead.

That is better than in Missouri, no concealed carry for honest people.

Missouri Demorats want it that way,,,,, November is election time, speak with your vote.

Hoover says FBI statistics show that there are only about 200 homicides justifiable as self-defense each year

Once again the gun grabbers consider only a dead perp as a successfull defense, not the hundreds of thousands to a few million cases where the perp is thwarted by an armed would be victim, but not killed. Personally I'd be happy if the bad guy just goes away, although even happier if he gets to spend some quality time as the guest of the state.

November is election time, speak with your vote.

We are caught between a rock and hard place here.
Governor Taft, (RINO) won't sign CCW, and he is running against, Tim Hagen (Democrat), who is against CCW Big Time!

I'm in the delayed entry program to become a Marine and I swore to the Constitution of the United States and I know what the Constitution says and I'll fight to my death defending my rights.

No, I never filled out something like that. Even if I did, I'd never fire upon American civilians

Glad to hear that - we need more like you in the armed forces. Question: would you (hypothetically speaking, of course) actively oppose those who issued orders to your fellow Marines to fire on civilians, or to search their homes, cars, etc. for guns? Also, what do you think that others in your position would do?

That is better than in Missouri, no concealed carry for honest people. Missouri Demorats want it that way,,,,, November is election time, speak with your vote.

Yeah, i remember when proposition B went on the ballot (right to carry). The reason it didn't pass was a lot of the rural people didn't bother voting because they thought it would pass so easily. The idiots in Kansas City and St. Louis had the upper hand and struck it down. I've been waiting for another attempt since then.

Support your right to carry as an Ohioan by joining Ohioans For Concealed Carry.

I'm afraid the election will get in the way, MissTargets. Time to start pressuring our State Senate to get a CCW bill through.

Tony

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