Posted on 07/28/2002 6:07:47 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
The Talk Shows
Sunday, July 21, 2002
Guests to be interviewed today on major television talk shows:
FOX NEWS SUNDAY (Fox Network):Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill and former Vanguard Mutual Funds chief executive John C. Bogle
FACE THE NATION (CBS): Sens. Joseph I. Lieberman (D-Conn.) and Fred D. Thompson (R-Tenn.) and Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill.
MEET THE PRESS (NBC): Presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin and Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill.
THIS WEEK (ABC): Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), National Economic Council Director Lawrence B. Lindsey, Pfizer Inc. chief executive Henry A. McKinnell and Blackstone Group Chairman Peter G. Peterson.
LATE EDITION (CNN): King Abdullah of Jordan, Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and Don Nickles (R-Okla.), AFL-CIO President John J. Sweeney, economic analyst John J. Castellani, Orange County, Calif., District Attorney Tony Rackauckas and National Economic Council Director Lawrence B. Lindsey.
Quote of the Day.
That takes guts. It really does. As you see, a lot of people were listening. By one phone call, you caused these self-important media shills to look in the mirror...even for a short while. And like Dorian Grey, they must cringe at their own visage.
Why on earth would you take that seriously? There is no evidence for a coming Dem House.
All it takes is a few words whispered to the NYT about 3 days before the general election.
The Dem's are getting real good at October surprises that are opened in November.
Don't you think that sometimes these talking heads when interviewing a Bush appointee skirt around the issue waiting for it to be brought up by the interviewee??? But these guys have more class than I do that is for sure, I would've brought it up in a heartbeat.
I think it was someone on the roundtable at Fox that said it would be to the R's advantage to have control of the House. Legislation comes through them. If we controlled the House we could still call Daschle an obstructionist in legislation and on judiciary nominations.
Personally I would like to see us take back the Senate but the numbers could be so close that another RINO could jump ship and hand it back over to the Dem's.
I just wish he would do an equally tough job at challenging Rubin, Corzine and Torricelli.
Exactly. I do not have a problem with republicans and the administration having tough questions.
The problem is the jovial tone the host takes when a dem is in the other seat. The demeanor of the host (in this case Russert) conveys a message that he is talking to a "good guy" (or gal). The demeanor with the republican practically screams "I am dealing with a dishonest, wrong-headed person".
"PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OR EXCERPTS FROM THIS NBC TELEVISION PROGRAM TO “NBC NEWS’ MEET THE PRESS.” NBC News MEET THE PRESS Sunday, July 28, 2002
MODERATOR/PANELIST: Tim Russert - NBC News
This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
In case of doubt, please check with MEET THE PRESS - NBC NEWS
(202)885-4598 (Sundays: (202)885-4200)
"MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: Concerns over the economy, the federal deficit and the stock market. Is the Bush economic team up to the task? What are their plans? With us: The secretary of the treasury, Paul O’Neill....
".. And now here in the studio—deep concerns across the nation about the economy, the stock market, the federal deficit. With us: The man in the eye of the storm, the secretary of treasury, Paul O’Neill. Welcome.
SEC’Y PAUL O’NEILL: Thanks.
MR. RUSSERT: Mr. O’Neill, as you well know—you’ve been reading the papers, the commentary about the Bush economic team. This is yesterday’s New Republic: “O’Neill’s chronic inability to speak reassuringly on economic matters has made his resignation less a matter of if than when. Wall Street, most Democrats, and a growing number of congressional Republicans believe he must go now, while there’s still an economy to reassure people about.” And out in the country, this is the Orlando Sentinel: “Where’s Paul? ...[two weeks ago], as the Dow Jones industrial average was falling almost 8 percent, U.S. Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill was overseas, touring Eastern Europe and several former Soviet republics. When the going got tough, Mr. O’Neill got going—to Kyrgyzstan. It’s time for President George W. Bush to send his Treasury secretary back for food. The president needs a more engaged and capable point man on economic policy.” Are you on your way out?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: You know, Tim, my job is to work on the fundamentals of our economy, and the fundamentals are really quite good. As I’ve been saying for a better part of a year, we’re going to see growth as we go out the end of this year at 3 to 3 1/2 percent real growth, because Alan Greenspan took rate-cutting action when it was timely. The president was able to convince the Congress to cut taxes when it was timely. And out there in our economy, out there in Main Street, the real growth in our economy is moving just as we thought it would. And we’re working as hard as we know how to with the Congress to get additional legislation enacted, trade promotion authority, protection for people’s pensions and 401(k) plans, terrorist risk insurance, just to name a few, of things that we think are related to the fundamentals, which can assure that our economy will continue to be the envy of the world without any one even close to second to the performance of the American economy.
MR. RUSSERT: So you’re not resigning?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I’m going to keep working on the fundamentals, Tim, because that’s what I think I’m supposed to do. And the spectators can say whatever they will.
MR. RUSSERT: One comment you made last week caught a lot—created a lot of interest. And I’ll give you a chance to explain it when you said this, “I’m constantly amazed that anyone cares what I do.” You’re the secretary of treasury of the United States of America. People care what you do; people who are losing half their 401(k)s. Why would you say something like that?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, it was an on-the-fly comment, and what I intended by it is this: Those who care in a superficial way about what I do, I really am constantly amazed that people aren’t more interested in the substance of things. The trip to the Central Asian countries was importantly about national security issues, it was importantly an opportunity to talk to those leaders about our war on terrorists’ finance as part of the bigger war on terrorism. It was about discussing with them important opportunities to develop their own economies with hydroelectric power and improving gas transmissions through Ukraine. And these were important things to Americans, because to the degree those countries can improve their own situation, it reduces the potential for their people to be negatives and the hot beds of terrorism. And to the degree they can improve their energy position, it’s very beneficial to the United States, because it means there will be more supply and prices will be lowered. So, you know, it’s in that sense that I’m amazed that people seem to have superficial interests, but they don’t really spend enough time to understand why would someone go to four former Soviet republics? For a very important set of reasons related to our national security, to our economic security and also to understand how we should shape the president’s millennium challenge accounts, which is intended to provide assistance to developing countries that really works, instead of just sends money.
MR. RUSSERT: I think the concern is that when you’re away on a trip like that and the stock market starts to collapse, why do you stay? Why didn’t you come home?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, I was only gone a few days, and, you know, again, I’m interested that people somehow don’t understand with all the telecommunications capability that we’ve got now, it’s possible to be constantly in touch. And then I guess I would challenge the notion that when markets are doing their thing, which they do on a regular basis, that someone can say some words that will somehow be a magic elixir. You know, if there are some who think that’s right, then they ought to say the magic elixir words. But I think the important thing to do is stay focused on the fundamentals, which is what we’re doing. You know, we’re working hard to get additional legislation passed that will be helpful. The corporate governance bill the president is going to sign this week is another step that finally responds to the president’s request for many of these measures going back to the work he asked Alan Greenspan and I to do in January, which he then formed into a 10-point set of recommendations to the Congress and the SEC in March. And so we’re working on the fundamentals, Tim, and I think that’s appropriate.
MR. RUSSERT: You were going to be in South America today, but the White House forced you to cancel your trip.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: No, that’s not true.
MR. RUSSERT: You canceled on your own volition.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I decided that since the Senate decided they were going to stay in session for an additional week, that the Latin leaders would understand if I asked them for a week’s postponement of the trip that had been long-planned. And, again, Latin America’s very important to the United States. We have big trade relations with them. It’s very important that people in this hemisphere succeed economically. And Argentina has had problems, and Uruguay has had problems, and Brazil has had some problems. And I think it is important in my role as secretary of the treasury that I don’t make the mistake that I think many people do who think the sun only sets and rises in Washington and New York. I don’t happen to believe that’s true. And if you have any doubt, you ought to go see where the mass of people live in the world, Tim. They don’t live in the United States. In order to protect our own security, both militarily and economically, we need to pay attention to the world. Indeed, we need to pay a lot of attention to the U.S., which I’m doing a lot of. And...
MR. RUSSERT: But let me raise that point, because you mentioned a few minutes ago about people talking to markets, and markets do their thing. Let me take you back to December 20, 2000.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: OK.
MR. RUSSERT: President-elect George Bush appointed you, and this is what he said, and why he had selected you. Let’s watch.
(Videotape, December 20, 2000):
PRESIDENT-ELECT GEORGE W. BUSH: We must have a steady voice coming out of our administration, someone, should the economy take a downturn, who can calm people’s nerves, calm the markets, calm the—you know, those who would speculate in the dollar, and that’s why I’m naming Paul O’Neill as the secretary of treasury—such an important, important decision—because he is the man who is capable of doing that job. (End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: Calm people’s nerves. Calm the markets. That’s what he wanted you to do. When you’re away visiting the Soviet Republics, you can’t possibly be doing that back home here.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: You know, I simply don’t think that’s right. I think it’s possible to get coverage from many places in the world. And, again, I think commenting on a daily basis is not an appropriate thing for the secretary of the treasury to do. One thing that I would urge, and that I would really appreciate, is more opportunities to call attention to what the facts are. The facts are, our economy is growing at a good rate. Now, this is good for the American people. Productivity growth has never been stronger than what we’re seeing right now. It’s very hard to get people to pay attention to that. In fact, in the reports that have been given so far for second-quarter earnings, I think 80 percent to 85 percent of those earnings reports have been either equal to what was expected or better than what was expected. It’s almost impossible to find that important piece of good news in the coverage that I’ve seen. And so I must tell you, it’s really a struggle. I appreciate the opportunity this morning to tell the American people there is good news out there, because if they listen to the steady amplification of the negative stuff, admittedly, there have been some negative things with the corporate scandals, but it’s very hard to get any attention or any air time for telling the people the truth about what’s good in our economy, Tim.
MR. RUSSERT: But your comments have been closely covered, Mr. Secretary. This is how the Associated Press dealt with it. It says, “When Wall Street reopened after being forced to shut down by the Sept. 11 terror attacks, O’Neill turned into an economic cheerleader, predicting Sept. 17 that the Dow Jones industrial average could approach all-time highs within 12 to 18 months.” “As the stock market melted down that day, O’Neill declared, ‘The people who sold will be sorry that they did it.’ He also pooh-poohed the idea that the economy could be headed into a recession. It did.” People track every word you say very, very closely and sometimes it has just been plain wrong.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, Tim, I’d call your attention to this. Now, first of all, on the day that we re-opened the market in New York was an enormously important and emotional time. And what I said then I think is right, that the U.S. economy is second to none in the world. And that over time people who have made their bet and invested in America have been big winners, and I think that will be true going forward. So I don’t apologize for saying on the day we re-opened the market, looking down into those faces of people who had worked 22 hours a day to get our economy, our market economy, back into motion—I don’t apologize for saying this is a great economy and I’m proud to be an American. I don’t take that back.
MR. RUSSERT: And that...
SEC’Y O’NEILL: And when I said I didn’t think we were going to have a recession, I would tell you if people count as a recession one quarter of negative growth and the National Bureau of Economic Research says that’s a recession, God bless them. I don’t care. We’ve never had—at least, I think, for 35 years, we’ve never had a one-quarter recession before. And the truth is, our economy grew in the fourth quarter, as I said it would. Almost everyone else said it wouldn’t. So I think, you know, what I’m saying is trying to articulate what’s going on in our economy, which is good. I don’t know why people want to find an endless negative when the economic fundamentals are good and strong and moving forward in a very good way.
MR. RUSSERT: Here’s one that does trouble people. The Standard & Poor’s index of 500 stocks, they have lost 37 percent of their value since George Bush became president. That is twice—twice—the loss under Herbert Hoover. That is a grave concern to people. They are losing their pension plans, their income plans, their retirement plans, their college savings. You understand that, don’t you?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: You bet. You know, I think you can’t live in this world with a family like the one that I have without feeling the pain of investments going down and pension plans and company benefit plans going down. Of course we know that and it’s why the president proposed early in the year that we put in place protections to avoid people being hurt by Enron-type events or their pension plans and 401(k) plans. But the other important point is this: that people who are invested in the American economy over time are going to win. There has never been an extended period of time in our history where investments in the U.S. economy didn’t win, and people will win again. There’s no denying there’s lots of hurt out there as people open up their mutual fund statements and see they’re negative compared to what they were six months ago or 12 months ago, but over time the fundamentals of our American economy, and which you showed at the top of the show. The spirit of American people represented by those nine people is a general characterization of our population. This is a nation of winners, Tim. We’re going to win.
MR. RUSSERT: Let me talk about corporate wrongdoing, corporate corruption. How widespread do you believe corporate corruption is in the United States?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I do not think that it is widespread. I think the cases that we’ve seen are unbelievable that people would so abuse their authority and responsibility and help themselves to the golden pot while they were doing in their employees and their shareholders. There’s no doubt that real abuses have occurred, but I tell you what, I think...
MR. RUSSERT: But again, Mr...
SEC’Y O’NEILL: ...the jobs that are created in this economy are created by small business people and medium-size business people and big corporations, and this economy is second to none. And underlying all of that are great American people who do not abuse their authority. So I think it’s appropriate that we put the abusers in jail and we not be forgiving of what they’ve done. But, you know, we ought to thank the people out there who are creating new jobs and innovating to make new products and the rest of that. It is the wellspring of America’s prosperity.
MR. RUSSERT: But the American people have a much different view. We asked them in our NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll about corporate wrongdoing. “Is there a problem of a few corrupt individuals?” Thirty-three percent; widespread problem, 61 percent. I asked you earlier about recession. Let me show you this. “Is the country in recession?” Yes, 41 percent; no, but will be there within a year, 27 percent; no, 27 percent. Sixty-eight percent of the American people believe we’re in a recession or heading to one. They believe overwhelmingly that corporate corruption is widespread. Two views diametrically opposed to the ones you expressed this morning. Are you totally out of touch with the American people?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, I tell you what, Tim, I’m not a great fan of running life by polls. Maybe that’s the way you think we should run life, by polls. I don’t believe that. I look at the facts, I look at the underlying productivity in our economy, I look at the real growth that’s taking place, I look at job formation. I look at those things that represent new jobs and higher levels of compensation for the people. And so I get my facts from what are really facts about the economy. I don’t rely on polls to find out what I should do tomorrow morning.
MR. RUSSERT: No chance for another dip in the recession, a double-dip recession?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I guess I’m not into the business of forecasting except to say what I’ve been saying now for the better part of a year: When we go out this year, we will go out with the economy running between 3 and 3 1/2 percent real growth, which is a reasonable rate, and I expect we will see something even a little better than that next year.
MR. RUSSERT: Your predecessor Robert Rubin has spoken out on this whole issue with Newspeak magazine, and I’ll show you and our viewers here: ”[Robert] Rubin, Clinton’s former treasury secretary, says an ‘adjustment’ is essential. He says that the 10-year, $1.5 trillion tax cut is a much bigger threat to the economy than the corporate scandals. Rubin suggests a kind of domestic ‘loya jirga’ (a big Afghan council) on the economy. ‘Get everyone together and put everything on the table,’ he says. ‘We don’t have to “raise” taxes, we just have to postpone or cancel what would otherwise happen in the later years.’ The fact is, deficits are once again the biggest threat to the economy. We’ve gone in less than two years from $5 trillion worth of surplus to new and growing deficits as far as the eye can see. That’s having its own effect on the markets.” Do you agree?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, of course, I don’t agree, because basically what my good friend and the former secretary of the treasury is saying is that we should raise taxes on the American people. It doesn’t seem like a brilliant idea to me to raise taxes right now, Tim, and neither does it seem like a good i...
MR. RUSSERT: He’s saying postpone the tax cut?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: No, he’s not. He’s saying raise the taxes, Tim. I’m sorry. You know where he said it from? He said it from Singapore while his company was losing $50 billion worth of market capitalization.
MR. RUSSERT: It’s not just Mr. Rubin, David Broder, very respected journalist here in Washington: “...the overriding question—the one that dwarfs everything else—is what to do about the huge tax cut that Bush pushed through Congress back when those mythical budget surpluses were still clouding most people’s vision. That tax cut will cost the Treasury $1.7 trillion, including debt service, in the first decade. But because most of it was back-ended to the years between 2006 and 2010, it can be recovered—if politicians decide to be...honest...in telling people what we face. Bush has been adamant in rejecting a rollback or even a delay in the tax cut—virtually all of which will go the highest-income voters.” You pledged on this program, the president pledged during the campaign, not to spend the Social Security surplus. You’re spending it.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, I don’t think that’s right, and I also think this. I don’t think that...
MR. RUSSERT: You’re not spending the Social Security surplus?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I don’t think, Tim, that the American fiscal position, that is to say, surplus or deficit, comes from raising taxes.
MR. RUSSERT: But you’re spending the Social Security surplus. The facts are important, Mr. Secretary.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: It comes from creating economic growth, and I believe that we will move back into surplus as our economy continues to expand, and the surpluses will reappear. And the fact of the matter is this, Tim. With the tax cuts fully in place, the federal government is still going to be taking 21 percent of everything that’s produced in our society and appropriating it to the federal government, which is 1percentage point higher than the average for the last 50 years. And so it is true that we did not anticipate the 9/11 attacks. It is true that we didn’t see the economy dipping down into one quarter of negative growth, but our economy is regrowing itself. And with the...
MR. RUSSERT: But, Mr. Secretary, the deficit is $165 billion. You’re spending the Social Security surplus. And your own figures from the Office of Management and Budget show that nearly 40 percent of the surplus over the next 10 years is being used by the tax cut.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I would say this to you, Tim, we’re not...
MR. RUSSERT: Those are your numbers.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: We’re in a deficit position because of 9/11 and the money that’s necessary...
MR. RUSSERT: And not the tax cut? SEC’Y O’NEILL: No. I think we’re spending money that is necessary to provide for homeland defense, to provide for additional resources for the Defense Department. I haven’t found any Americans who say, “We’re spending too much money on the wrong things,” and what’s happened to us is our revenues have gone down because the economy slowed down, but they will come back and growth will restore the surpluses.
MR. RUSSERT: So over the next 10 years, any monies that are raised through the Social Security taxes will not be spent for anything other than Social Security?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, you know this as well as I do, Tim. Social Security monies are never spent for anything except Social Security. It’s a red herring that people trot around Washington. The Social Security money, every bit of it, goes into a Social Security trust fund and none of it...
MR. RUSSERT: But you pledged to segregate. During the campaign, you pl...
SEC’Y O’NEILL: It is segregated. None of it gets spent for anything but Social Security.
MR. RUSSERT: All right. The president’s going to have an economic forum in Crawford, Texas, next month.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Right.
MR. RUSSERT: Why aren’t any Democrats invited?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: How do you know that?
MR. RUSSERT: That’s been reported by the presidential press secretary. He was asked specifically.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: It’s news to me. The reports I’ve seen said there are going to be over 250 people there and it’s going to be a wide-ranging representation of America.
MR. RUSSERT: Including the Democratic congressional leadership?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I have no idea. I haven’t seen a list of specific. I think...
MR. RUSSERT: Should they be included?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I don’t know. I’m not in the business of making up the invitee list. And I haven’t seen it.
MR. RUSSERT: But you haven’t...
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I’ve been working on the fundamentals. MR. RUSSERT: If you have a serious forum on the economy of the United States, shouldn’t you include the Democratic leadership of Congress if you want a true bipartisan approach to the economy?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I think we should include people who are representative of America, and I don’t know who’s on the invite list, but I think the American people will judge that it’s a fair representation of them.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that you are the chief economic spokesman?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I do.
MR. RUSSERT: And you’re fulfilling that role?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I do.
MR. RUSSERT: And that you have calmed people’s nerves and calmed the markets?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, I don’t accept that notion that somehow saying a few words will calm the markets. I think my job is to work on the fundamentals, and we’re working on the economic fundamentals, which are good, which I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to say several times.
MR. RUSSERT: You have.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: The economic fundamentals of our society are good and improving.
MR. RUSSERT: You told Time magazine that you are a little dubious that in the middle of a hurricane, a soothsayer can make the wind go away.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I said that.
MR. RUSSERT: We’re in the middle of a hurricane?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Well, I think it’s abating, but I also think, again, that the reason it’s abating, because the fundamentals are good, and, in time, the truth will win, Tim. I believe that.
MR. RUSSERT: And no change in the tax cut?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: I can’t see a reason to raise taxes on the American people at this time in our economic cycle.
MR. RUSSERT: And the deficits will disappear by when?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: They will disappear by a consequence of growth in the economy...
MR. RUSSERT: By when? SEC’Y O’NEILL: ...instead of raising taxes.
MR. RUSSERT: By 2005, 2006?
SEC’Y O’NEILL: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: We’ll hold you to that.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: All right.
MR. RUSSERT: Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us.
SEC’Y O’NEILL: My pleasure.
....
" MR. RUSSERT: And we are back. Welcome both. History replete with presidents trying to deal with perceptions of bad economies. This was in the Financial Times last week, “The ghost of Herbert Hoover is back to haunt Wall Street. As the stock market was plunging in September 1929, the 31st president of the US was reassuring the American people, ‘the economy is fundamentally sound.’ President George W. Bush said the same thing this week, but, just as in 1929, nobody seems to be listening.”
The secretary of treasury three times, Bill Safire, “The economy is fundamentally sound.” How do presidents deal with bad economic news and how crippling can it be politically, unless they get control of it and fix it?
MR. WILLIAM SAFIRE: If I were writing speeches for the president now, the phrase I would choose is that the economy is fundamentally noisy. That Hoover line about fundamentally sound gets to people. And if they hear that, then they say, “Whoops, there must be something wrong.” But they never learn. Now, O’Neill this morning kept making the point that he kept saying “fundamentally sound” and I winced every time he did it. But beforehand in the green room, I said, “Boy, you know, the economy is all your fault.” And he said, “Thanks.” Because, indeed, contrary to what the stock market has been saying recently, things are getting better.
MR. RUSSERT: But people are nervous, Bill Safire.
MR. SAFIRE: Oh, sure they are. And so what are we doing? We’re reaching out and blaming. Whose fault is it? It’s the accountant’s fault, it’s the lawyer’s fault, it’s the corporate crook’s fault, it’s the analysts, it’s the press that didn’t tell us. The fault, dear Brutus, lies within ourselves. We were in the grip of mass hysteria, and most people were riding pretty high on it. And so for now to turn around and say, “It wasn’t me, it wasn’t, you know, my greed, it wasn’t my lust for taking a ride on this carpet.”
MR. RUSSERT: Irrational exuberance..."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/786756.asp
Well, I tell you what, Tim, I’m not a great fan of running life by polls. Maybe that’s the way you think we should run life, by polls.
and:
Well, you know this as well as I do, Tim. Social Security monies are never spent for anything except Social Security.
Notice O'Neill answers Russert addressing him personally at points.
I said it before and I'll say it again. I like Paul O'Neill.
That's just the ticket!!! A Lieberman Muppet! Perhaps Registered can make us the prototype. It could be THE hot item for Christmas!
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