Minister's suspension exposes debate on interfaith relations

The Journal News ^ | July 23, 2002 | Gary Stern

[Charles Henrickson]

Many New Yorkers were stunned when a Lutheran minister was suspended recently for praying alongside non-Christians

[A. Pole]

Because he prayed with Catholics and other Protestants, and, yes, with non-Christians after 9/11?

Prayed to whom? To the generic god or to the gods or to the some vague pan-theistic force?

[sinkspur]

Prayed to whom?

To God. You obviously think that God belongs to you when, in reality, you belong to God. And you are in no position to determine how God reveals Himself.

I'll let God be God. Jesus said that "He who is not against us, is for us." I'll pray any day with people who want to pray with me.

[RnMomof7]

Sink I beieve there is ONE God..only one ...

I take His words very seriously ..no kidding Deu 4:24   For the LORD thy God [is] a consuming fire, [even] a jealous God.

  Exd 20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

Jos 23:7   That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear [by them], neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them:

Exd 34:14   For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

You do not like me sink..I feel bad about that . We disagree one more time

If there is a "mixed multitude" (Muslims , Hindis etc) we can not pray with them

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

[A. Pole]

And you are in no position to determine how God reveals Himself.

I am in such position! God reveeals Himself through Jesus Christ and as Holy Trinity - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is no other God. If you want to join me in praying to the God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit you are welcome. But I cannot pray to the other god.

[RnMomof7]

Tens of thousands praying is more than 144,000. Why are the excess praying, since they're going to hell, right?

I assume this means you are ready for open communion in the Catholic Church now huh?

[sinkspur]

You do not like me sink..I feel bad about that . We disagree one more time

Disagreeing with you does NOT mean I don't "like" you. When I'm dealing with you fundies, it's like dealing with my kids, when they were seven.

I ask you to look at yourself and your acquaintances. Maybe you only hang around with Calvinists, I don't know. I don't. I've got Baptist, and Presbyterian, and Unitarian, and agnostic friends. They all pray (except the agnostic, and he prays that he won't HAVE to pray with these Christians!). Should I not pray with them? Should I not pray with a Jew or a Muslim, who comes to our little neighborhood group and asks for prayers for a member of his family?

Your God's too small, momma. I will pray with members of the human family, and let God sort it out.

[sinkspur]

I am in such position!

Well, I'll wait for your first miracle.

[RnMomof7]

So then you want open communion right?

[Charles Henrickson]

Benke has a history of doing this and promising never to do it again.

Yes, for those who are not aware, Benke participated in an interfaith prayer service in September of 1998. On October 22, 1998, he signed a public apology and assurance to the Synod.

However, I really doubt that Benke's suspension will be upheld.

That's very possible, of course. Benke has two rounds of appeals available to him. He could be reinstated.

I think the controversy, caused by Benke, will finally end the phony unity of the LCMS.

I hope you're right. We may not know which way the Synod will go until July of '04 (the next synodical convention).

And I am quite certain that Kieschnick will drive Wallace Schulz out of the synod.

That is by no means certain at this point.

Benke belongs in the ELCA.

That's for sure. Benke has called our differences with the ELCA, to use his words, "idiotic" and "trivial." He has said "it feels way too good" for him to be among ELCAites.

He [Kieschnick] should win the next election handily.

That is not at all clear. What it takes for an incumbent LCMS president to lose is for him to . . . uh, tick . . . a lot of people off. Kieschnick is doing a very good job of that. People do not like discord, and it has been nothing but that since Jerry took office.

Also, I believe Kieschnick will effectively split the synod, and that will be good. The conservatives should leave. They lost a long time ago. It's time to form a new synod.

It's premature to say which side is going to end up leaving. This thing could go either way. If somebody has to leave, I'd rather it be the liberals. That would be addition by subtraction.

What you say could happen. The libs could prevail, and the conservatives/confessionals would have to leave. But I'm telling you--and I keep up with what's happening on a daily basis--everything is still in play. It really could go either way.

[Chemnitz]

I keep up, too, daily. I think the conservatives overplay their clout. All of my opinions are just that. Each one only sees a small sliver. I think the conservatives will prevail only by leaving. If they stay on after this disgrace, they will take anything afterwards.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I think there is too much wishful thinking going on.

[Torie]

This church needs a new PR agent. Worrying about who is praying with whom seems to me to be to low priority issue, and in fact rather intrusive. JMO.

[Charles Henrickson]

If you think a Christian minister participating in a service side by side with Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and Sikh clerics is no big deal . . . if you think inviting them to join you in prayer to "God" is adequate and acceptable . . . if you think confirming idolaters in their unbelief and confusing the faithful is a nice thing to do . . . if you think those things are a low priority item for the Christian church to be concerned about . . . well, think again.

[Torie]

I can't imagine anyone of monotheistic faith eshewing prayer with anyone of good spirit to what they consider a common God. It defies my imagination. But then internecine religious acrimony has never been my bag. I really don't understand it, or like it, or admire those that indulge in it, and never will while I inhabit this mortal coil, of that I am quite sure. I as a near atheist would be happy to join in such prayer to enjoy savoring the joy and hope others derive from the expresson of their faith. I suspect none of this makes any sense to you.

[Mfkmmof4]

So? We should be open to other faiths and support their view of God and not penalize an ecumenical prayer service after 9/11. I feel for this guy who was suspended.

[biblewonk]

Dave Hunt should be proud of the Missouri Synod.

[George W. Bush]

This action by the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, a national denomination known for its conservative views, struck some in this wounded and politically correct region as cold and even unchristian.

Maybe there's some life left in the Missouri Synod. I've felt badly for their conservative members. Maybe this is a sign of hope.

"No one questions that Pastor Benke showed us what a pastor is supposed to do after 9/11, spending days and weeks at Ground Zero," said Anthony Iovine of Yonkers, who is training to be a Missouri Synod minister and acknowledges being a rare conservative in a liberal corner of his church. "No one is questioning his ability as a pastor. We're questioning his theology. If you pray next to a Muslim, you are saying that his God is equal to mine. But the First Commandment says 'You shall have no other gods but me.' "

Boy, this sounds familiar!

Hey, No.6, keep us informed on how this works out. I've found it hard to believe that the liberals were going to beat the Missouri Synod among Lutherans.

[A. Pole]

I can't imagine anyone of monotheistic faith eshewing prayer with anyone of good spirit to what they consider a common God.

This that two religions assert that there is one god, does noy follow that they worship the same god.

Second the Hindu worship many gods.

[B-Chan]

So? We should be open to other faiths and support their view of God and not penalize an ecumenical prayer service after 9/11.

There is no salvation outside the Church, but the Catechism teaches that those who subscribe to faiths other than Christianity that acknowledge the God of Moses and Abraham as the true and only Supreme Being are united to the Church in some mystical manner.

I have enough on my hands tending my own garden to weed somebody else's. We should pray to God with and for whomever will join us.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I will pray with members of the human family...

Curious.

I remember a time when I couldn't participate in a Catholic Mass because I was Presbyterian. I was asked to sit in the pew and remain silent.

I actually have more respect for those Catholics who excluded me from their service than those today who accept and invite heathens to the alter of Christ.

If 'anything goes' -- it's already gone.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Bump to you, too, livius.