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US report foretells of brave new world - (Borg Alert)
SMH ^ | July 23, 2002 | Nathan Cochrane

Posted on 07/23/2002 1:34:17 PM PDT by Damocles

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To: RightWhale
We can only hope they will like what they have in 2102.

From everything I can gather, they reckon this should take place in 35 to 50 years. Some reckon sooner of course.

The interesting thing about the timeline is because of the exponential effect of doubling computer speeds, they reckon we will only be half way to the coming singularity when we're only 6- 12 months away from it. People won't even realize. The last doubling effect will carry us much further than we would've imagined in a very short space of time.

When we invent the first computer that is just a wee bit more intelligent than us- it can begin to design the next computer and that one can design the next one ad infinitum until within a couple years time computers are so much more intelligent than us it'll make us look- well- silly. If the computers are benign, they will quickly compute all the solutions to all the things that concern mankind- longevity, cure for disease etc and possibly even show us how to become super intelligent or "trans-human" (I believe is the phrase that many Singularity enthusiasts like to use). After that, supposedly we would become like gods ourselves and could no longer be considered the same species and life after that point is simply unimaginable by the contemporary human of today- hence it being called "The Singularity"- a point it is impossible to see past or speculate beyond.

21 posted on 07/23/2002 3:54:26 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Damocles
I said the Singularity enthusiasts believe that. But they have a point. It will be impossible for the gov't to keep the knowledge secret. Once anybody has the knowledge- everybody will have it. It's kind of like the genie in the bottle. They won't be able to use the genie without letting the genie out. Even people sworn to secrecy to work on these things would be overly tempted by the possibilities of being able to use this technology themselves. All it would take is one leak, one hacker, one corporate spy and that's it.

I'd say first we have to get to that point to even worry about that puzzle.

You want to read a little more about it, do a google for "Singularity" and in particular a guy called Eliezer Yudkowsky- he's written extensively on it- as a matter of fact, he thinks it should be the goal of humanity to get to the Singularity as quickly as possible because all problems will be solved at that point and every day we waste is another day we suffer needlessly. It's a little bit out there, but he's obviously an intelligent guy and it's interesting reading. If you search for him, you'll probably come across a piece he wrote called "The Low Beyond- Staring into the Singularity". That's a pretty good place to start.

Also, a book that provides a pretty good overview of the subject (the author is just collecting the ideas out there- not his original ones) is called "The Spike" and I believe the author's name is Damien Broderick. Probably not worth the hardcover price, but if you can find it in paperback, it's food for thought.

22 posted on 07/23/2002 4:03:51 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Damocles
Oh and it would be totally remiss of me not to mention Vernor Vinge- he coined the phrase Singularity for this event and has also written a lot on the subject.
23 posted on 07/23/2002 4:06:17 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Thanks for the info. This seems a bit of a strecth but it cetainly is fascinating.
24 posted on 07/23/2002 4:06:24 PM PDT by Damocles
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To: Prodigal Son
Economics will limit post-singularity creatures, too. At best they will flood out into space until they run out of resources. At worst they will remain a laboratory curiosity. For most people they won't matter. Unless there comes a turf war between machine and man. It is too easy to underrate man because we each act so dense and stupid a lot of the time, but man will win the turf war. Also, most won't choose to become Borg, mainly because it's going to be a lot of work and not worth the effort. A few might go that route, but they won't amount to much.

What we have in 2102 won't be post-singularity existence, but a much less-developed version, probably with State control of all the citizens like in our worst nightmares.

25 posted on 07/23/2002 4:16:35 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Damocles
"Think Vulcan mind-meld. We would perhaps become more of a hive mind - an enormous, single, intelligent entity."

Anybody remember the particular mind-meld that some viewer called up the Today Show to ask Ross Perot about? Hee! Hee!

26 posted on 07/23/2002 4:19:00 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Damocles
Yes it is. I first came across this Singularity idea a couple of years ago and you're actually the first person I've discussed it with outside of my wife. LOL! She just shows me the hand and lets me know that to her it's BORING.

Some of the crazy implications of it- the Singularity enthusiasts don't call it downloading (human mind to computer) they call it uploading. But anyway, they reckon once we figure out quantum computing and nanotech, biotech etc to this point- we'd theoretically be able to upload the collective minds of all of humanity into a computer as small perhaps as a cube of sugar. Which would be fine until some Dilbert comes along and plops said sugar cube into his coffee cup. Whoops! So much for the human race!

27 posted on 07/23/2002 4:21:26 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: RightWhale
I'm personally torn on the subject. I figure there might be some natural law that prevents such a thing as the Singularity from taking place. Sort of like the alleged law against paradoxes that prohibits time travel (you know you go back and kill your granddad and therefore would never exist).

But the enthusiasts on this subject are totally convinced to the contrary. So much so that they're already devising a humanitarian philosophy that will help those of them that become transhuman deal with the mere peons that don't- they don't want to treat 'em as serfs dontcha know.

One thing's for sure and this is what ever got 'em started speculating on the topic in the first place- if you plot the advance in computing speed on a linear graph, you see the implications of Moore's Law. If you assume that Moore's Law will remain constant- at some point about 35 years from now the advance in computing speed just shoots straight up through the top of the graph. Whatever happens at that point- even if the Singularity turns out to be a fizzler- it should still be very interesting.

Of course, this is assuming Moore's Law holds up for another 35 yrs.

28 posted on 07/23/2002 4:29:05 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Free the USA
bttt
29 posted on 07/23/2002 4:58:05 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Damocles
It would be a great way to solve the Social Security problem. Just upload old people so they are immortal forever.

Or let them think they are being uploaded. A kind of Logan's Run Singularity.
30 posted on 07/23/2002 5:30:15 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: Damocles
A few years back I was reading some science magazine that said if there could be a way to unite everyone on earths minds, that we could create our own universe. This one would fall away and the new one would just materialize. Maybe that isn't so far out given that in the end times the stars are falling and the universe is upended, the earth reels to and fro on it's axis like a drunkard.

Given this report, and that article, one would suspect that we may be about to mess things up big time.

31 posted on 07/23/2002 5:49:39 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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