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Group protests Tribune coverage (Fla Wahhabi Lobby Trying to Squelch Coverage of Al-Arian et al)
The Oracle (USF Student Paper) ^ | 15 July 2002 | Chris O’Donnell

Posted on 07/17/2002 8:22:23 PM PDT by Stultis

Group protests Tribune coverage
USF students were among protesters objecting to the reporting of The Tampa Tribune

By Chris O’Donnell
News Editor
July 15, 2002

If the “ship them all back” remarks hurt Muslim USF junior Layelle Saad, she hid it well.

Instead, Saad, a member of Students for International Peace and Justice, continued getting her message across, refusing to let the comments of an elderly passerby who interrupted her interview deter her. The coverage of Muslim issues in The Tampa Tribune, Saad said, is biased and often a thinly disguised attack on Muslim religion, culture and on leaders of the Muslim community in Tampa.

“This smear campaign has been going on for seven years, and we’re not going to sit around and take it anymore,” Saad said. “They’re defaming our religion, and it’s getting worse every time, so we have to make a stand.”

Saad was among approximately 80 protesters demonstrating against The Tampa Tribune’s coverage of Muslim issues Friday. The protesters, organized by SIPJ, rallied on Parker Street outside the offices of The Tampa Tribune for more than an hour, chanting slogans calling for an end to what they perceive as biased coverage. Many protesters carried placards with comments such as “We want journalists, not propagandists” and “The Tampa Fibune.” Seven police officers maintained a close watch throughout the demonstration.

Two Tribune journalists in particular were cited by protesters as having provoked the demonstration and found themselves the target of many chants and placards, Michael Fetcher and columnist Daniel Ruth.

Ruth’s column on June 30 attacked Sami Al-Arian, the tenured USF professor currently on paid leave pending a decision on his proposed dismissal, reiterating disputed evidence linking Al-Arian to terrorists.

Ruth followed that up on July 8 when he condemned legal proceedings attesting Sultaana Freeman’s right to refuse to remove a veil covering all of her face other than her eyes for her driver’s license photograph. References in the column to the Koran and the wives of Mohammed were, according to protesters, offensive to Muslims.

“He’s sitting here being all sarcastic and making fun of our religion,” said Saad. “I respect his freedom of speech, but as a journalist he should take a more unbiased approach when he is writing.”

Ruth said that as a columnist of seven years, he was accustomed to the vociferous complaints his work sometimes provoked, which he recognized as part of people’s First Amendment rights.

“My attitude is that anyone that plugs down their two bits has every right to complain,” said Ruth.

“When Clinton was president, people accused me of being a right-wing John Birch type. Then with Bush, I get accused of being an extreme left-wing liberal. Other columns have seen me called anti-Catholic, anti-Baptist. It’s all part and parcel of this job. It goes with the territory.”

But for Saad, Ruth’s columns have tangible repercussions.

“His actions have consequences. It incites hatred against Muslims,” she said.

Ruth, however, maintained there was no set policy for the Tribune’s coverage of Muslim issues.

“The only agenda I have is to make deadlines,” Ruth said.

The other main target of demonstrators’ ire, Fetcher, said he could see no grounds for the demonstration.

“I think they’re misguided. To say that when we write a story about a couple of people who happen to be Muslims is an attack on Muslims is a stretch,” said Fetcher.

Fetcher’s recent front-page story linking Al-Arian to Islamic Jihad that used the rare, but not unknown, journalistic practice of quoting unnamed sources was perceived by protesters as one of the clearest examples of the Tribune’s alleged anti-Muslim slant.

Al-Arian, who attended the protest, said the partisanship of the unnamed sources, in this case from within the Israeli intelligence services, irreparably damaged the credibility of the article.

“When we look at the evidence, there is none. All anonymous sources and, in particular, using foreign sources that have a stake in this, a motivation.”

Fetcher maintained that with the exception of the most recent story, where the sources were not named for their own safety, reports concerning Al-Arian were based on hard evidence.

“If our coverage, based on court proceedings, court records, immigration proceedings and videotape, offends people then I’m sorry,” he said. “But that doesn’t make us pro or anti anybody. We’re reporting on the record.”

Referring to Fetcher’s story, Al-Arian said the newspaper was “aiding and abetting” Israeli intelligence services in discrediting prominent Muslim figures.

“I don’t think (Fetcher) should use double standards. One for Muslims and one for everyone else,” said Al-Arian. “No group or person would be subjected to these kind of sensational attacks if they had a different background, different religion or different ethnicity.”

In a news statement, SPIJ called for the Tribune to prevent “biased and racist” reporters from covering stories concerning Muslim issues and to discontinue the publishing of articles with claims not supported by evidence. The statement also called for the development of a dialogue between the Tribune and members of the Muslim community to foster improved relations. SIPJ plan to take their protest further by asking local Muslim storeowners to refuse to stock the Tribune.

“We’re digging up all the (past) articles to show how biased they are,” said Saad. “We’re going to present it to people and let them make their decision whether they want to support the Tribune or not.”

Al-Arian said the boycott could be extended to companies that advertise in the Tribune.

“If Sears and JCPenney agree with this kind of standard, and they help (the Tribune) with advertising, then the Muslim community needs to know that, and then they will have to take a stand,” said Al-Arian.

Sean Kinane, a graduate student, said he attended the protest because he wanted people in the community to question what they read in newspapers. One reader he is particularly concerned about is USF President Judy Genshaft, who is still considering whether to fire Al-Arian.

“(Genshaft) said she heard new information when (Fetcher’s) article came out, so she is apparently relying on the Tribune as a source of her decision-making, at least in part,” Kinane said. “So if (the Tribune) came out and admitted that the practices that they are doing are questionable, maybe that would have an effect on her.”


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: alarian; americanmuslims; tampatribune; terrorcharities; usf; wahhabilobby

1 posted on 07/17/2002 8:22:23 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis
“...we’re not going to sit around and take it anymore,” Saad said. “They’re defaming our religion, and it’s getting worse every time, so we have to make a stand.”

Good Idea. How about starting with a stand against random violent murderous attacks against innocent civilian populations in Western countries by radical islamic barbarians?

2 posted on 07/17/2002 8:32:04 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham
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To: Stultis
Here are the Ruth columns in question.  I agree wholeheartedly with both of them. Of course, these folks want the suck-up to radical Islamicists of the St. Petersburg Times.
Daniel Ruth

Related:
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altEmail Daniel Ruth

Column:
alt

NATION/WORLD > Ruth

 

alt
Fair To Judge Al-Arian By The Company He Keeps?

Published: Jun 30, 2002

 

M aybe in the end it's a matter of this:

When it comes to selecting his friends, Sami Al-Arian has all the discretion of John Walker Lindh.

When it comes to watching his mouth, Al-Arian has all the circumspection of Don Rickles.

And when it comes to whining, the University of South Florida professor- in-limbo is without peer - if you don't count Sean Penn.

Al-Arian was in full pout-a-thon last week as he responded to reporting by the Tribune's Michael Fechter that Israeli intelligence officials had linked him to the board of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. They consider him one of the terrorist group's fundraising operatives and deep thinkers.

Then again, when one of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad's primary objectives is to murder innocent civilians, including women and children, how much deep thinking is really going on? What's to think about? Semtex? Or C4?

Through his mouthpiece, Al-Arian called the allegations ``pure nonsense,'' saying all he ever did was oversee a couple of reputable Islamic think tanks on the USF campus.

So there you are.

Either Sami Al-Arian is an innocent soul caught up in a nightmare of scurrilous accusations because of his purely academic interests, or he is a savvy, high-ranking operative aligned with a murderous international terrorist organization.

It would be lovely if life were simple: black and white.

 

Gray Hue

The feds bug John Gotti at his social club, and in no time the Mafia thug obliges by incriminating himself. Moments after bombing the Murrah Federal Building, moron Tim McVeigh is captured easily by a state trooper.

Goodness, in the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the case against the suspects began to come together quickly when one of them attempted to get his deposit back on the rental truck used to transport the explosives.

But the story of Sami and the Jihads is one cast in the grayest of hues.

To be sure, no one has ever denied Al-Arian has every right to voice in vociferous terms his political views in support of a Palestinian homeland and his criticism of Israel's treatment of the Arab populace in the Middle East.

But while Al-Arian wallows in public self-pity, moaning that he's merely a humble man of scholarship innocently hounded by the media and shadowy intelligence officials bent on portraying him as a tool of international terror, the ol' professor all too conveniently forgets he invited the scrutiny upon himself.

After all, was it not Al-Arian - a man of peace, love and brotherhood - who brought Ramadan Abdullah Shallah, the leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, to the USF campus in the early 1990s as an adjunct history professor and later installed him as an official of one of his think tanks?

Sami? What were you thinking?

 

Love Sonnets

OK, fine. Let's assume Al-Arian had absolutely no idea his pal would emerge later as the head of a brutally violent group of thugs. Let's assume that whenever they got together, all Sami and Ramadan did was discuss the poetry of Billy Collins. Why would the FBI, the CIA and Mossad think something might be amiss?

Then there were the various Islam- sponsored conferences organized by Al-Arian, where at least one speaker described one of the USF think tanks as ``the active arm of the Islamic Jihad movement in Palestine,'' a claim dismissed by the professor with a tut-tut here and a tut-tut there.

Al-Arian has written fundraising solicitations so future ``martyrs'' can continue their work, and he has spoken publicly about ``Death to Israel'' and ``Damn America,'' language he subsequently has tried to parse as merely lyrical flights of linguistics.

Now Al-Arian rejects as ``pure nonsense'' the idea that these incredible coincidences of associations and behavior go just a tad beyond academic curiosity - and that Israeli intelligence might connect him to Palestinian Murder Inc.?

Perhaps Al-Arian never tossed a bomb, pulled a trigger, or even plotted an act of violence upon innocents. Fair enough.

But if we're judged by the company we keep, the words we speak, the roads we travel, Sami Al-Arian's prayer rug has some nasty red stains.

 

Columnist Daniel Ruth can be reached at (813) 259-7599.

 

Daniel Ruth

Related:
altMore Columns
altEmail Daniel Ruth

Column:
alt

NATION/WORLD > Ruth

 

alt
Facing The Facts Of Infidel Florida's Requirement

Published: Jul 8, 2002

 

T his probably poses a vexing problem for Abdul-Maalik Freeman whenever he tries to find his wife's picture in her old school yearbook.

``Ah, there's Sultaana. No, wait a minute, there she is! Nope. Oh, that's her. Uh, maybe not. Oh yeah, there she is! I'd know those eyebrows anywhere.''

Do you suppose even Allah would have to agree that even though many strict interpreters of Islam regard women as walking pillars of salt, not to be gazed upon for fear of stirring up temptation, that this court flap is an intifada of foolishness?

It's certainly reasonable to assume the state of Florida had a slam-dunk case on its hands when it sought to force Sultaana Freeman, a 34-year-old Winter Park resident, to have her face fully on display for her - DRIVER'S LICENSE.

Really now, how onerous a government regulation is this?

After all, the state driver's license also serves as an official identification card presented when one votes, or writes a check or boards an airplane.

 

Privacy Violated?

But when Sultaana Freeman, apparently a by-the-book Muslim, presented herself for her license photo, she refused to remove her niqab, a veil that hides all of her face and head except for her eyes, arguing her religious beliefs require that only her husband Abdul-Maalik and family members are permitted to see her full countenance.

The state countered it was fine if she wanted to be the Greta Garbo of Winter Park for religious reasons. She just couldn't drive, and her license was revoked.

Now the Freemans have sued the state under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, arguing Sultaana Freeman's rights to due process and privacy have been violated.

And Orange County Circuit Judge Ted Coleman, instead of laughing this case out of court faster than a Tampa Bay Devil Rays relief pitcher heading to the showers, refused a state attorney general's request to dismiss one of the dumbest legal moves since O.J.'s jury returned its verdict.

``We just want justice to prevail,'' Abdul-Maalik Freeman said. ``We're not looking for attention. We're just following the commandments of God.'' Oh? Is that so?

 

No Pressure

Since Sultaana Freeman already accepts Islamic thinking, which takes a strict view of women as second- class theological citizens, why does she want a driver's license, inasmuch as in many Arab countries females aren't permitted behind the wheel?

To be sure, the Koran is a respected religious tome. But it's pretty hard to imagine how even the most dedicated Islamic scholar could fail to see the absurdity, not to mention the comic relief, in using a state-issued identification card on which the subject can't be identified.

You could easily make a strong argument that not one iota of Sultaana Freeman's rights to due process or privacy have been infringed upon. Not one.

Obtaining a driver's license is not a constitutionally protected right. It is a privilege extended by the state to those who voluntarily wish to operate a motor vehicle on taxpayer-supported roadways.

Nobody is forced, or legally required, to drive.

And, certainly, no one was pressuring Sultaana Freeman to pose for her license photo wearing a T-back and pasties. All she was asked to do was have her face photographed solely for identification purposes, not to become an alluring seductress to reduce state troopers, or grocery cashiers, or security guards to a stammering pile of testosterone.

A question for the Freemans. In the state of Florida, there are any number of devout Islamic women who daily commit the Saudi Arabian sin of driving and who apparently have no religious problem adhering to the infidel Florida legal requirement to have their driver's license photos taken in full facial exposure. What happens to them when they die? Do they spend an eternity with 50 really ugly guys?

Earlier this year in a similar case, Najat Tamin-Mihamad agreed to reveal enough of her face to be photographed to obtain a state identification card. At last report, she has not been torn apart by wild beasts or stoned in Daytona Beach.

This country, this state, have all the tolerance in the world for religious expression and freedom of belief.

But when it comes to driving a car in Florida (again, a perfectly voluntary privilege), the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles trumps the Koran, and that includes all of Mohammed's wives, too.

 

Columnist Daniel Ruth can be reached at (813) 259-7599.

 



3 posted on 07/17/2002 8:34:09 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Stultis
Students for International Peace & Justice

Don't know anything about this group yet, and haven't looked at their past events, so this is merely a suspicion at the moment: I betcha SIPJ has included in their protests and forums any number of groups fomenting war and thuggery (islamist and/or leftist insurgencies) in places like Columbia, The Phillipines, Algeria, The West Bank, Chechnya, and so on.

4 posted on 07/17/2002 8:36:07 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis
Ealier related article, an email from CAIR promoting this rally and calling for boycott:

BOYCOTT CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TAMPA TRIBUNE (Wahhabi Lobby attacks reporting on domestic Islamists)

5 posted on 07/17/2002 8:42:13 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis
story image 1
Special to The Oracle
Suspended USF professor Sami Al-Arian is the target of attorney John Loftus’ lawsuit.

Loftus refiles lawsuit

By Rob Brannon
News Editor
July 08, 2002

For controversial USF professor Sami Al-Arian, John Loftus is a problem that won’t go away.

Loftus, former president for the Florida Holocaust Museum, gained notoriety earlier this year when he filed a lawsuit against Al-Arian. But Al-Arian claimed victory in June after a judge threw out the case, citing the fact that Loftus did not show how he was personally injured by the professor’s conduct.

The judge did, however, grant Loftus a 20-day period in which the suit could be amended. Loftus used that to his advantage and refiled his suit on July 1 with new information that he said will prove Al-Arian harmed him individually.

“It is normal for trial judges to ask for more detail in civil complaints, and I was happy to provide it,” Loftus said. “No decision has yet been reached on the merits of the lawsuit. It has merely turned on the legal issue of whether I suffered personal financial damages.”

Loftus said he anticipates no further questions about his ability to bring the lawsuit on behalf of the general public. He said he had planned to refile the suit anyway because new evidence has come to light regarding Al-Arian’s case.

Loftus said an Israeli informant working within the militant Palestinian Islamic Jihad from 1990-1995, before being killed, fingered Al-Arian as being the organization’s second in command. The leader, he said, is Ramadan Abdullah Shallah, a former USF adjunct professor.

“No reasonable person can doubt that Professor Al-Arian is a member of an international terrorist organization,” Loftus said.

Loftus said Al-Arian is the highest- ranking member of a terrorist organization in the United States who is not currently in prison. He said he isn’t sure why, with the secret evidence he claims to have discovered, Al-Arian has not been apprehended.

“I don’t like the word conspiracy. I think it is 90 percent stupidity and 10 percent corruption,” Loftus said. “It is not a secret the CIA and FBI don’t play well together.”

Loftus said Al-Arian is protected by the Saudi Arabian government and, thus, has friends in high places. Saudi Arabia may also be important for U.S. military operations in the coming months, with reports of possible military actions against neighboring Iraq. Loftus said the United States government has deep connections to Saudi Arabia, and, thus, protects Al-Arian.

“I think that the motives to protect the Saudis are mixed,” Loftus said. “Of the 10-percent corruption factor, I would guess that a bit of it is that we rely upon Saudi oil for 15 percent of our daily oil supply. The Saudis have also stated publically that they have so many friends in Washington because they take such good care of them after they retire. And, finally, the Saudis have the most powerful lobby and media influence within the United States.”

Loftus said much of his information is similar to that reported in an article from The Tampa Tribune that caused controversy because of its use of unnamed Israeli intelligence agents as sources and will be the topic of a protest scheduled for Thursday at the newspaper’s offices.

Loftus said he has been exposed to the information because of his years of service as a lawyer inside the intelligence community.

“My sources keep me very current on Al-Arian,” Loftus said. “I had very high security clearances from all U.S. intelligence and NATO agencies when I worked for the attorney general. We have a gentleman’s agreement that I (receive and use) any secret evidence provided that I submit an advanced copy to the CIA publicity review committee to obtain clearance prior to publication.”

Loftus said he submitted his information to the CIA in March before filing the original lawsuit.

“The CIA gave me permission to file the complaint without censorship,” Loftus said. “However, the FBI headquarters in Washington opened a formal leak investigation in order to determine how I learned such highly classified information.”

Loftus said under attorney/client privilege, he can never reveal his sources.

The information Loftus claims to have received from those sources could go far beyond his membership in Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Loftus said he has evidence to link Jihad and Al-Arian to the al-Qaida terrorist organization, which has been blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks.

 
Special to The Oracle
Loftus claims Al-Arian has links to al-Qaida and Jihad.

In addition, Loftus said evidence suggests Al-Arian may have personally played a part in the execution of the attacks.

“It is a matter of record that an organization known as the Baraka group laundered the money to the skyjackers of Sept. 11. Sami Al-Arian incorporated Baraka in the state of Florida, which was dissolved on Sept. 28, 2001,” Loftus said. “(Evidence shows) that professor Al-Arian may have played a minor but significant role in supporting al-Qaida attacks on the United States.”

Al-Arian could not be reached Sunday for comment. He has, in the past, been harsh toward Loftus, calling him, among other things, a liar, lunatic and said, “he needs to be treated mentally.”

In fact, it seems the only thing Al-Arian and Loftus can agree on is the USF administration’s handling of the case. Al-Arian was suspended from teaching by USF president Judy Genshaft on Sept. 28, 2001, two days after his now infamous appearance on The O’Reilly Factor television show. Genshaft has yet to decide whether to fire Al-Arian and has stated the decision will probably come in August.

Al-Arian said, following his suspension, that academic freedom should protect comments he has made, no matter how controversial. Loftus said he feels academic freedom should be protected.

“I agree with the (USF) faculty that, in the future, it would always be better to have peer review before suspension or the firing of a professor,” Loftus said. “I would also agree that academic freedom, particularly at USF, is something that all of us should defend to the fullest.”

But, Loftus said, he now awaits the next move in his crusade to unmask Al-Arian. He said proving Al-Arian’s guilt is a step toward uncovering terrorist ties within the United States.

“To me, Sami Al-Arian is insignificant,” Loftus said. “He is only important in that the evidence of the Saudi-Sami Al-Arian connection is overwhelming.”  end of article


6 posted on 07/17/2002 8:47:41 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Stultis
Al-Arian, who attended the protest

Why is this terrorist still alive, much less walking around loose? I'll know that we are taking this thing seriously when this guy is in an internment camp. Do we really have to wait until he blows up a nuclear power plant?

7 posted on 07/17/2002 8:48:21 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Stultis

Radio Free Republic Presents

Turn on the radio to listen live!

The Banana Republican Radio Hour

With your host Luis Gonzalez

This week's guest:

John Loftus

Thursday, July 18th. 9 PM, EST.

Listen to Radio FreeRepublic live this coming thursday night, as Mr. Loftus discusses his book "The Secret War Against The Jews. How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People"

Brought to you by FreeRepublic.com and The Free Republic Network.


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8 posted on 07/17/2002 8:48:47 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Stultis
“His actions have consequences. It incites hatred against Muslims,” she said.

The terrorists' actions have consequences -- just take a look at the gaping hole a few blocks away from me. They hide behind islam to incite hatred against non-muslims.

9 posted on 07/17/2002 8:57:56 PM PDT by NYC GOP Chick
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To: Stultis
See also:

Al-Arian supporters take his cause on-line (Fla Wahhabi Lobby Mainstreaming Radicals)

10 posted on 07/17/2002 9:01:04 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Loftus sounds like a Tin-Foil yarmulke for sure.
11 posted on 07/17/2002 9:01:28 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Amen, brother Lucius!! I nailed Al-Arian the minute I first saw him on Bill O'Reilly's show.

This man should be gone YESTERDAY! And until he is gone, I won't take our efforts to hunt down and deport Islamists seriously.
12 posted on 07/17/2002 9:03:17 PM PDT by Humidston
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To: Illbay
Loftus sounds like a Tin-Foil yarmulke for sure.

I haven't read his book, but I guess that some editor chose the title. It could be a simple retelling of the reasons for and history of support for Arabs during the 20th century by the US State Department and intelligence agencies, and the similar activities by the Brits. There were many reasons for this, from opposition to the Ottoman Empire, to desires to restrain the Soviets, to the need for oil. There were also social snobbery among the types that populated the State Department and intelligence agencies. Of course, it might be a tin-foil hat book too. Time will tell.

13 posted on 07/17/2002 9:11:17 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Humidston
I nailed Al-Arian the minute I first saw him on Bill O'Reilly's show.

I knew what I needed to know when I say the original story on Sixty Minutes, which predated the O'Reilly show. Of course, O'Reilly really laid him out!

14 posted on 07/17/2002 9:14:58 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: summer; dennisw
Ping!
15 posted on 07/17/2002 9:50:17 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Luis Gonzalez; LarryLied
John Loftus BUMP!!! He's doing good work.
16 posted on 07/18/2002 3:25:22 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Stultis
bytttttttttttttttt
17 posted on 07/18/2002 3:27:16 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Actually, I was going by what he said in the article posted. He just sounds like a nut.

That doesn't mean Al-Arian isn't the criminal mastermind behind a vast Palestinian conspiracy yaddayadda, but when the guy goes on and on about "secret information" from "an Israeli informant working within the militant Palestinian Islamic Jihad from 1990-1995, before being killed" (how convenient) and then concludes "No reasonable person can doubt that Professor Al-Arian is a member of an international terrorist organization," it just sounds strange to me.

Personally, I think Al-Arian ought to be fired from his post. Had he made the kinds comments against African Americans that he did against Israelis, he would have been just a dim memory by now. I don't see that the state of Florida or the University of South Florida is obligated to keep someone like that on the payroll.

And it isn't necessary for USF to determine that Al-Arian is a terrorist in order to accomplish that.

18 posted on 07/18/2002 6:14:09 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
Personally, I think Al-Arian ought to be fired from his post.

IMHO this goes without saying. Will have the side benefit of demonstrating to our academic enemies that they are not immune from reprisal themselves, could help conservative students get a break from their indoctrination sessions (oops, I mean classes).

I agree that his stuff sounds a little strange, but I thought that the TV news looked a little strange on 9/11 (took me 2 hours to be sure it wasn't a movie). Since that date I have been cautious about dismissing things that sound a little strange. (Of course things that sound waaay strange, that is differrent).

19 posted on 07/18/2002 6:28:22 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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20 posted on 07/19/2002 1:14:21 PM PDT by piasa
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