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Sex scandal death knell for Church? [Bernadin & Co.'s ritualistic abuse exposed]
WorldNetDaily ^ | 7/17/02 | Toby Westerman

Posted on 07/17/2002 6:58:26 AM PDT by Polycarp

Wednesday, July 17, 2002



SUFFER THE CHILDREN
Sex scandal death knell for Church?
Catholics take matters into own hands after Bishops' 'band-aid' solution


Posted: July 17, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Toby Westerman


© 2002 International News Analysis Today

As the crisis of confidence grows in the scandal-ridden American Catholic Church, many in the laity and clergy are skeptical that Church hierarchy will take effective corrective action and are moving toward reforming the institution from the grass-roots level.

According to long-time observers of the Church, June's conference of bishops arrived at no real solution to the decades-long problem of clerical abuse, providing only vague reassurances and a "charter" on abuse to a thoroughly disgusted nation.

The "Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People" promises in its preamble: "We reach out to those who suffer. We apologize to them and offer our help for the future." The body of the charter guarantees that child abuse will be reported and the faithful supported in their grief.

"If they [the bishops] think they've solved the underlying problem, they're deluding nobody but themselves," declared the Rev. Charles Fiore, a veteran of the struggle to expel abusers from the Catholic priesthood.

Fiore, a Catholic priest for 42 years, has fought the homosexual influence in the clergy almost from the date of his ordination. With degrees in philosophy and theology, as well as clinical training at Menninger's and the State Hospital in Topeka, Kan., Fiore has both condemned the actions of homosexual priests and counseled the victims of their abuse.

The solutions offered by the bishops were nothing but a "band-aid applied to the real problem of the pandemic corruption of the Church in the United States," Fiore declared, adding that the bishops gave no evidence of "an intention of addressing the skeletons in their own episcopal closets."

The charter itself remains voluntary until the Vatican gives its approval and may, in fact, never have the force of law. Negotiations over the charter may take years, and the American bishops have for decades ignored Vatican directives they found to be objectionable.

While allowing some priests to go behind bars, American Catholic bishops have a firm track record of protecting their brother bishops, even under the most adverse circumstances.

The Catholic reform group Roman Catholic Faithful, or RCF, closely follows the continuing careers of disgraced bishops and, among many similar instances, has noted the following:

Currently, Bernard Cardinal Law, Roger Cardinal Mahony and Edward Cardinal Egan are among the top Church officials under legal and media scrutiny for their handling – or mishandling – of child-abuse cases in their jurisdictions.

Roman Catholic Faithful, founded in 1996 by Stephen Brady and located in Petersburg, Ill., has devoted itself to bringing to account priests and bishops for their moral outrages and criminal activity. By 1999, Ryan resigned under pressure initiated by RCF, while not admitting any guilt.

Brady's group also has brought to the public's attention a priest-oriented international homosexual Internet site called St. Sebastian's Angels, which continues to operate at various Web locations.

Brady's activities have earned him the enmity of the homosexual community.

One individual with ties to the Catholic homosexual group Dignity, as well as St. Sebastian's Angels, published Brady's private home address and phone number on the Internet, referred to RCF as a "hate group," described Brady as motivated by "evil purposes" and labeled him as a "perpetrator."

In another incident, which was reported to the FBI, Brady learned from a second-hand source that an e-mail message was circulating on the Internet stating that someone has placed a "contract" out for Brady's assassination.

Murder tied to priests' club?

While the threats against Brady are unsettling, there are indications that those who delve too deeply into the connection between clerical homosexuality and child abuse – finding perversion slipping into an abyss of satanic ritual – may pay for their curiosity with their lives.

In the late 1980s, two young Chicago private investigators, Bill Callaghan and Hank Adema, agreed to assist a "friend of a friend," whose child had been molested by a priest of the Chicago Archdiocese.

The parents of the abused child sought help after the Archdiocese under Joseph Cardinal Bernardin threatened to counter-sue following their original allegations. Before the scandal of clerical child abuse came to the public's attention through the efforts of the mass media, it was common practice for a diocese to file a libel suit against parents who charged diocesan clergy with abusive behavior.

As their investigation into the background of the abusive priest proceeded, Callaghan and Adema discovered the existence of a homoerotic group, made up mostly of priests, calling itself The Boys' Club.

During their inquiry into the membership and activities of The Boys' Club, a woman identifying herself as the girlfriend of a murdered church organist contacted the investigators and stated that she had information that would be useful to them.

The woman's friend was one Frank Pellegrini, once the organist and choir director at All Saints-St. Anthony of Padua Catholic Church on Chicago's South Side. Pellegrini had also served as chair of the Sociology Department of Loyola University of Chicago.

According to the information obtained from the girlfriend, Pellegrini had a homosexual relationship with one of the priests involved in The Boys' Club, but was in the process of leaving the priest-lover and marrying her.

Before completely severing ties with the priest, however, Pellegrini discovered that The Boys' Club was involved with far more than homosexual relations. Tied closely with their sexual exploits was ritualistic satanic worship and the regular abuse of young children from low-income, ethnic families.

Pellegrini informed the Chicago Archdiocesan Chancery, and scheduled a meeting with one of the archdiocese's top officials.

The day before the meeting, Pellegrini was brutally murdered in his home, which showed no signs of forced entry.

Callaghan, who spoke with police personnel originally working on the case, stated that Pellegrini was found with his hands tied with barbed wire and had been stabbed repeatedly.

Even Pellegrini's dog was slashed, leaving it seriously wounded but alive.

In the opinion of police detective/profilers working on the case, the brutality and manner of the killing indicated that it was carried out either by a woman or a homosexual, Callaghan stated.

Pellegrini was stabbed 47 times – the same number of years he had lived.

Just after Pellegrini's body was discovered, and while police were still on the scene of the murder, police observed two unusual incidents, Callaghan reported.

The first involved the arrival of then-Cardinal Archbishop of Chicago – and one of the most powerful men in the American Catholic Church – Joseph Bernardin. Although there was never an indication that Bernardin met Pellegrini, he arrived at the murder scene and quizzed police personnel on the progress of the investigation.

Left unanswered was how Bernardin learned of the killing and why he should personally visit the scene of a relatively unimportant individual whom he had no reason to know.

The second incident involved Pellegrini's dog. As the police conducted their investigation at the scene, the dog remained quiet, still suffering from its wounds. When the dog saw priests come into the apartment, it suddenly became aggressive and barked wildly.

The Pellegrini murder occurred in 1984 and was "reopened" with federal funds in the early 1990s, but many of the investigation's informal police notes have been "lost," and important leads in the case have never been fully followed up, according to Callaghan. The Pellegrini case, at present, remains one of the many hundreds of unsolved Chicago murders.

Although Callaghan never met Pellegrini, nor participated in the original investigation, he and Adema found that whatever secrets the case entailed posed a direct threat to their own lives.

As Callaghan and Adema pressed on with their investigation on behalf of their client, they learned of a warning, which came through contacts in the Chicago Police Department.

Callaghan learned that mob informants had stated that a contract had been offered on his life, and on that of Adema, by an individual closely tied to the Pellegrini case.

Although no one in the local underworld was interested, there did exist the real possibility that the contract could be accepted by "a black or biker gang," Callaghan revealed.

The full extent of The Boys' Club influence in Chicago – and beyond – still remains unclear, as does the extent of ritual abuse associated with clerical assaults on children.

Hush money?

There is, however, ample evidence that ritual abuse does occur, and it is most obvious in the case of "Agnes."

In the opening pages of his best-selling book, "Windswept House," The Rev. Malachi Martin describes a satanic ritual carried out on a young girl. Although Martin used a degree of literary license in the description of the event, there is a real individual behind the story and an actual instance of satanic abuse.

"Agnes," a pseudonym for her actual name, met Fiore some years ago for assistance with spiritual guidance and counseling for the long-term effects of cult abuse she had suffered at age 11.

Agnes has consented to and passed several polygraph examinations and is now married with a family in a Southern city. She has made her accusations in sworn affidavits, written statements to Vatican officials and has directly confronted those whom she has accused.

Among those Agnes has implicated in the attack upon her was a young, rapidly advancing priest named Joseph Bernardin.

Agnes states that in the fall of 1957, in Greenville, S.C., with her father present, Bishop John Russell of the Charleston Archdiocese and his chancellor, Bernardin, raped her as part of a satanic ritual, which included, as a RCF report stated, "a perverted, sacrilegious use of a [consecrated] host."

According to Catholic teaching, a consecrated host is the true and total body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Agnes also became acquainted with Steven Cook, another individual who accused Bernardin of abuse. Cook accused Bernardin of coercing him into homosexual acts while he was a seminarian and Bernardin was archbishop in Cincinnati, Ohio.

While the media consistently have reported that Cook "recanted" his accusation against Bernardin, Cook, who was dying of AIDS, simply stated that he could "no longer trust his memory."

Callaghan interviewed Cook as part of his own investigation, and verified that Cook did not "recant." He learned that the dying homosexual, formerly of very modest means, suddenly had developed considerable financial resources. Estimates of the value of the newly established estate range from $250,000 to several million. After Cook's death, the money was divided between his mother, his sister and his male lover.

Bernardin, who said he had never met Cook, also left the dying man a costly chalice, which Bernardin had used to offer Mass in Cook's Philadelphia apartment. In addition to Cook and Bernardin, Cook's homosexual lover was also in attendance at the Mass. Cook made no secret of his homosexuality, and there is no indication that Cook would have hidden the identity of his male lover.

Giving Holy Communion under such circumstances, according to traditional Catholic teaching, constitutes sacrilege.

Bernardin also was implicated in an alleged incident of abuse perpetrated against seminarians attending the Immaculate Heart of Mary Seminary in Winona, Minn., in the 1980s.

According to a Boston Globe report, Bernardin, along with several "top prelates," were accused of "coercing seminarians at Immaculate Heart of Mary Seminary … into having sex."

The rector of the seminary, the Rev. Robert H. Brom, was also implicated in the sex-abuse charges. At the time the seminarian made his allegations, Brom served as Bishop of Duluth, Minn. Brom now is bishop of San Diego, Calif.

The Winona seminarian later retracted his charges, but he received a settlement payment of "less than $100,000," according to the Globe report, which quoted Archbishop Roger L. Schwietz, of Anchorage, successor to Brom as bishop of Duluth.

The circumstances of the seminarian's retraction, however, recently have come into question.

In a sworn affidavit, Mark Brooks, a friend of the seminarian who received the settlement payment, claims that the retraction of the charges against the bishops is false, according to a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune. The retraction was issued, according to Brooks, because the seminarian "needed the money."

Brooks' affidavit was filed in San Diego Superior Court in connection with a press investigation of abuse allegations against Brom.

In the mid-1980s, the Diocese of San Diego settled a lawsuit initiated by Brooks claiming abuse. The Diocese settled for an undisclosed sum.

Accountability to the laity

Confronted with constant scandal, and a sometimes callous, hostile clergy, many Catholics have lost their faith and left the Church.

Other Catholics, however, have banded together and are seeking to support the faithful clergy, while denying money to those elements that they feel are bent upon the destruction of the Catholic Church.

Michael J. Tario, who works closely with Wall Street traders, is leading a group called the Ad Hoc Committee for the Prevention of Clergy Sex Abuse.

Tario is suggesting that Catholics redirect – not boycott – contributions to the Church.

"Good Stewardship," said Tario, "is not just sending money to the chancery for a cover-up." Tario is urging Catholics to contribute only to Church organizations that use their funds for charitable purposes, rather than legal expenses and costly settlements.

Tario lives in the Chicago Archdiocese and personally knows parents whose children have been abused by archdiocesan clergy. Their callous treatment at the hands of the Archdiocese and a growing awareness of the extent of clerical abuse in the Chicago area and around the United States have compelled Tario to take action. Tario's group works closely with other organizations having similar goals across the nation.

The group is demanding that the Chicago Archdiocese implement four basic reforms:

  1. The chancery open all its files regarding abuse, including those considered most secret.

  2. All "gag" orders be lifted. No individual should fear a Church libel suit if he or she speaks of their experience with clerical abuse.

  3. A "Blue Ribbon Committee," independent of the archdiocese, be put in place to examine archdiocesan financial records, as well as all abuse files.

  4. All archdiocesan financial reports be independently audited to ensure transparent financial operations.

Tario periodically cites a statement of Bishop William B. Friend of the Diocese of Shreveport, La., on the right of the laity to know where and how the money they contribute is spent. "The Church consists of the people, so the people ought to know what is going on," declared Friend, who was a banker before becoming a priest.

Chicago Archdiocesan Financial Director Tom Brennan claims, however, that Tario's group is having little impact. Brennan expressed his confidence that archdiocesan revenues would continue to flow, stating that "we're expecting growing revenues," according to a report from the Rome-based Zenit news agency.

Quizzically, Brennan also stated in the same report that "he has not yet seen hard numbers from the past six months."

Others dispute Brennan's claim of financial tranquility.

Tario cites reports from several of the wealthiest parishes in the Archdiocese where contributions have significantly fallen, with some estimates noting a drop by as much as 25 percent. The information confirms an earlier Business Week article documenting a steep decline in donations as well as an increased need for funds from a top-heavy, lay bureaucracy.

As Tario's campaign of redirected giving gains momentum, another ominous threat to the American Catholic Church's money supply is appearing on the horizon.

What one attorney terms the "unholy trinity of litigation" – liability, damages and "deep pockets" – may prove to be the most potent stimulus for reform and relief to a hard-pressed laity, since Church structures would no longer be able to support the abusers within its ranks.

The possibility of a poorer but more faithful Church does not appeal to all.

When Tario proposed a program of redirected giving to Francis Cardinal George of Chicago, the cardinal archbishop asked in response if Tario wanted the archdiocese to go back to an "immigrant Church," poor and struggling.

Many observers, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, are pressed to respond that, if necessary to gain a more faithful Church, the answer would be, "Amen."

Related stories:

Diocese 'reaching out' to homosexuals

'Gay' culture in Catholic Church grows

Catholics learning sex from Kinsey disciples

Confab pushes homosexuality in Church


Related special offer:

WND probe exposes 'gay' rights' secret agenda – How the homosexual activist movement has targeted America's children .



I.J. Toby Westerman, is a contributing reporter for WorldNetDaily and editor/publisher of International News Analysis Today.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: bernardin; catholiclist
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To: yendu bwam
When Tario proposed a program of redirected giving to Francis Cardinal George of Chicago, the cardinal archbishop asked in response if Tario wanted the archdiocese to go back to an "immigrant Church," poor and struggling.

Such might cause the Church to become more holy, more humble, more truthful, more true to the word of God, more careful with the souls and psyches of children, less Sodomaniac, and finally, more Godly.

61 posted on 07/17/2002 5:01:04 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
Dear yendu bwam,

I've read a number of allegations. I haven't seen any evidence.

And that's the point. Not whether or not it's true. I don't know, and neither do you. The point is that all we're doing here is passing around the same (unproven) allegations and rumors that have been circulating, apparently, for some time. And the more the allegations are repeated, the more people say, "See! It's true!"

The original piece here offers no hard evidence, and the second one by Mr. Brady, in the body of the thread just rehashes some of the same allegations, and adds a few more.

Mr. Brady has done great work actually documenting the evil acts of some of the bishops. We've seen the actual websites involved, we've heard from real people who have come forward, not cloaked by anonymity, to make real, and specific charges.

But against Cardinal Bernadin, it is all allegation and rumor. It is certainly possible that some of the allegations are true. Or all of them. Or none of them.

Many things are possible. Two possibilities are:

Perhaps Cardinal Bernadin was sufficiently clever to sufficiently cover his tracks that it will be impossible to ever overcome a prudent doubt against the charges, and in this life, his reputation will never be successfully destroyed.

Perhaps Cardinal Bernadin was entirely innocent of personal immorality, and that those who hate him will succeed in permanently destroying his personal reputation.

My own preference is that I should avoid the latter by risking the former.

My perspective is that if someone can't produce the evidence, the individual should be quiet.

Frankly, I'm done arguing the point. Re-read the Catechism, Article 8, The Eighth Commandment, starting with paragraph 2464. Especially examine rash judgement, calumny, and detraction.

I'm going to take a break from these threads. I find it devastating to find so many good Catholics so willing to trade in gossip and rumors about our bishops and priests, especially dead ones who can't defend themselves.. Those of you who want to dump on our bishops can do so, and be confident that I'll offer no resistance for now.

I just have a question for some of you: So which cardinal was outed by the NY Times at the start of the Dallas shindig? None? Oh my! And I was just promised that all the rumors would be validated by then!

sitetest

62 posted on 07/17/2002 5:01:11 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: Renatus
Sinkspur, you need to speak more clearly concerning the priesthood and the Church

I understand the priesthood perfectly.

Do you understand the priesthood of the laity?

You spend all you time here touting the clergy and it is the clerical caste which has brought shame on our Catholic Church.

Yes, we need priests for the sacraments. Perhaps they'd be more respected if they acted in accord with the dignity of the office.

63 posted on 07/17/2002 5:16:40 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sitetest
But against Cardinal Bernadin, it is all allegation and rumor. It is certainly possible that some of the allegations are true. Or all of them. Or none of them.

I don't think I am making a rash judgment. I think I'm drawing a rational (though distressing) conclusion based on quite a bit of circumstantial evidence (the same sort used every day in court). Let's see. Bernadin was twice accused of personal homosexual molestation. Neither accuser ever recanted their allegations - despite what was surely intense pressure from the Church. One was definitely paid a lot of money. The other appears to have been. Certain of the priests that Bernadin trained with and who were his close personal friends became embroiled in multiple homosexual abuse molestation charges involving teenage boys. Bernadin's appointments were virtually all heavily in favor of condoning homosexual activity. Despite all the mass of homosexual molestation charges swirling around those close to Bernadin (and himself), he never managed (like virtually all of the bishops) to clearly and strongly denounce homosexual molestation of teenage boys. To my eyes, he was clearly at the epicenter of one of the rashes of homosexual activity (involving boys) and promotion of homosexual activity in the Church, and likely involved in it himself. No, that doesnt' amount to proof. But it's highly, highly suspicious. It also fits to a T the same fact pattern that surrounds many of the other homosexual ringleaders in the Church (like the two bishops who resigned in Florida - unrepentantly, I might add). Only God knows for sure where Bernadin belongs (in heaven or hell). Let's leave it at that.

64 posted on 07/17/2002 5:17:34 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Polycarp
Agnes states that in the fall of 1957, in Greenville, S.C.,... Bernardin, raped her ...

With her father watching?

Polycarp, there is NOTHING to this story, and the fact that Malachi Martin highlighted it in a book does it no favors.

65 posted on 07/17/2002 5:26:26 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: yendu bwam
Dear yendu bwam,

I read your latest post, and I don't think you've done a good job reasoning to your conclusion.

"Bernadin was twice accused of personal homosexual molestation."

Allegations are not proof. The fact that both accusers backed off indicates that the allegations could just as easily be false. Have you ever been publicly falsely accused of a serious charge? We just had this happen in our Knights of Columbus Council. It is hard for the falsely-accused person to ever get back their reputation.

"Certain of the priests that Bernadin trained with and who were his close personal friends became embroiled in multiple homosexual abuse molestation charges involving teenage boys."

Guilt by association. The fact is, Cardinal Bernadin was a very powerful man in the Church, and knew many, many, many folks. I wouldn't be surprised if he had at least a passing acquaintance with a majority of the 1000 - 2000 priests accused over the past 40 years. I wouldn't be surprised if he had at least a passing acquaintance with a majority of all the priests ordained for the past 40 years.

The world of priests isn't a very big one. You can quite ably do the guilt-by-association thing in such a small community.

I went to school with rapists, murderers, bank robbers, and drug dealers. One of my best friends in 6th grade went to jail for Grand Theft Auto. My former business partner used to snort cocaine. A dear personal friend was once convicted of arson. I could go on like this for some time.

And I don't know a fraction of the people that Cardinal Bernadin knew.

"Bernadin's appointments were virtually all heavily in favor of condoning homosexual activity."

So it is alleged. I would prefer a better statistical analysis of: all the bishops for whom he was a primary mover; all the bishops who endorse or condone homosexual activity. All I see here is some names bandied back and forth, fewer than the hundreds over which Cardinal Bernadin had a great deal of influence in appointing. And of course, there is the confounding variable: what other prominent bishops supported these candidates to the episcopacy at the time?

"Despite all the mass of homosexual molestation charges swirling around those close to Bernadin (and himself), he never managed (like virtually all of the bishops) to clearly and strongly denounce homosexual molestation of teenage boys."

These charges have swirled around a large number of bishops. And an equally large number of bishops also failed to strongly denounce homosexual molestation of teenage boys. Something on the order of TWO-THIRDS of the bishops failed to strongly denounce homosexual molestation of teenage boys. That is awful. And to the degree that Cardinal Bernadin was guilty of that, he must answer before God.

But do you think that TWO-THIRDS of the bishops raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them?

"To my eyes, he was clearly at the epicenter of one of the rashes of homosexual activity (involving boys) and promotion of homosexual activity in the Church, and likely involved in it himself."

My eyes see that far more of this garbage seemed to be happening in Boston, under Cardinal Law and his predecessors. Do you think that Cardinal Law or his predecessors raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them?

"No, that doesnt' amount to proof."

Now that wasn't so hard to admit, was it? ;-)

"Only God knows for sure where Bernadin belongs (in heaven or hell). Let's leave it at that."

Gee, that's sort of what I've been saying all along! I'm glad I persuaded you!! ;-)

sitetest

66 posted on 07/17/2002 5:35:30 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinkspur,

"...and the fact that Malachi Martin highlighted it in a book does it no favors."

Thanks.

I was too polite to mention that.

sitetest

67 posted on 07/17/2002 5:36:19 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: sitetest
But do you think that TWO-THIRDS of the bishops raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them?

No, and I didn't say that. But a research study by an Arizona newspaper indicated that 2/3 of bishops have knowingly moved molester priests from parish to parish.

68 posted on 07/17/2002 5:38:35 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
Only God knows for sure where Bernadin belongs (in heaven or hell).

In your rush to condemn, you're on the verge of consigning a cardinal to eternal perdition based on circumstantial evidence.

It should be our Christian hope that there is no one in hell.

69 posted on 07/17/2002 5:44:39 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: yendu bwam
Dear yendy bwam,

"'But do you think that TWO-THIRDS of the bishops raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them?' "No, and I didn't say that. But a research study by an Arizona newspaper indicated that 2/3 of bishops have knowingly moved molester priests from parish to parish."

Re-read my post, yendu. I mentioned that fact in what I said. And I said that if Cardinal Bernadin did that, too (which it seems he did), then he is guilty of cover-up, as well, and will answer to God for it.

But in your offer of proof that Cardinal Bernadin raped a young girl and performed satanic rituals on her, you rely on the fact that he didn't denounce homosexual molestation of teen-age boys. It only stands to reason that if that is evidence that Cardinal Bernadin raped a young girl and performed satanic rituals on her, then it is evidence that all the rest of the bishops who failed to denounce homosexual molestation of teen-age boys also must have raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them.

sitetest

70 posted on 07/17/2002 5:46:01 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: sitetest
"To my eyes, he was clearly at the epicenter of one of the rashes of homosexual activity (involving boys) and promotion of homosexual activity in the Church, and likely involved in it himself." My eyes see that far more of this garbage seemed to be happening in Boston, under Cardinal Law and his predecessors. Do you think that Cardinal Law or his predecessors raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them?

To my eyes, (I'm sorry, what you say doesn't convince me otherwise.) both Bernadin and Law were at the center of rashes of homosexual activity in the Church. And why would you think that I think that Cardinal Law raped young girls and performed satanic rituals on them? Is there strong circumstantial evidence supporting that? I don't think there is. I do think there is regarding Bernadin and homosexual activity. - Look - I have been lied to repeatedly and constantly by my own bishop, and every other 'leader' in this Church. The fog of lies and obfuscation from the Cardinals and Bishops could fill a bible length book. Most every single charge subsequently proven to be true in this scandal was repeatedly denied by those who 'lead' our Church prior to its revelation. Do you really believe Law didn't know that Geoghan and Shanley were child molesters? Do you really think Bernadin didn't know what was going on around him? My own bishop, Rodimer, spent summers with his best friend, a fellow priest, at a beach house. A young teenage boy accompanied his friend on these vacations and slept in his bedroom every night. Then it comes out that the boy was serially homoesexually molested by Rodimer's friend - while at the beach house. The offending priest has admitted his crimes and been removed. And Rodimer, of course, says he knew nothing, NOTHING. Given that Rodimer showed not the least concern for homosexually raped boys in the town next to mine (until forced to), I really don't believe him regarding his friend. Are we so gullible as to believe that he didn't know he good friend of many years was homosexual? Didn't it occur to him that having a homosexual friend sleep every night with a teenage boy in his room might not be a good thing? C'mon. I have a homosexual friend who is an organist for a major parish in the Church near here. He tells me that the diocese has been full of active homosexuals for years, and that what he calls 'the immature ones' look for young (often teenage) men in bars, seminaries and even brothels in New York City. There is a difference from facing an out-of-the-blue charge about something, and having a life surrounded by both such charges and close friends being so charged. I personally think you're being naive. I could be wrong, I admit. But I'm not so naive anymore. I am astounded and heartbroken by the proven things which have come out, and extremely suspicious of people like Bernadin and Rodimer. I am tired of being taken for a complete dupe by our Church.

71 posted on 07/17/2002 5:56:39 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: sitetest
But in your offer of proof that Cardinal Bernadin raped a young girl and performed satanic rituals on her

Dear Sitetest, Please re-read my post. I NEVER made any comment regarding Benradin having raped a young girl, and/or having performed satanic rituals on her. I said I thought there was a great degree of cicumstantial evidence that Bernadin was heavily involved in and knowledgeable about the homosexual activity all around him. I didn't say I 'proved' anything. I said there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, and there is.

72 posted on 07/17/2002 5:59:19 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: sitetest
Finally, I would say that if the Chruch really wants to do something about this, and if there are some unfounded allegations (which I agree, there inevitably are), it will decide to NEVER let a priest be in the presence of a child or teenager alone. The Boy Scouts has a similar policy and it has reduced (homosexual) molestations dramatically. The Boy Scouts also requires that all children and teens be warned (graphically, I'm afraid) about the dangers of sexual molestation. That would also be sensible policy for a Church whose priests can't keep their hands (and other body parts) away from teenage boys. No access, no credible allegations possible. Only a fool parent would today allow their sons to be alone in the company of a priest.
73 posted on 07/17/2002 6:03:33 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: sinkspur
In your rush to condemn, you're on the verge of consigning a cardinal to eternal perdition based on circumstantial evidence. It should be our Christian hope that there is no one in hell.

Let's see. I pointed out that there was strong circumstantial evidence with regard to Bernadin and (in my opinion, and that of many others) there is. I haven't the tiniest mote of power to consign anyone to hell! That's God's job, with the judgment of Christ. As a Christian, I do hope and pray that the fewest number of people in this world go to hell. But many do. ("Only a few may enter by the narrow gate...") I do truly hope I'm wrong about Bernadin. But if I were a betting man, my bet would not be where my hope lay.

74 posted on 07/17/2002 6:12:31 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: livius
[Neuhaus] is a convert, after all, and it's very hard to see this sort of thing in a Church that he obviously loves.

I think he is heart- and soul-broken, like we all are.

75 posted on 07/17/2002 6:27:36 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: jjm2111
I'm not so sure about the RCF myself, but as a Catholic the fact that priests can mess around with boys AT ALL blows my mind. The fact that the higher-ups cover up and cover up and cover up (LAW!!!!) allowing truly evil people to get away with their crimes makes me very sad. I've almost considered converting to some protestant religion. I could rant for hours, but I won't.

We are being inured to tremendous evil. Now people think it's normal for every diocese in the country to have its own homosexual rape scandal. Well, it is...

77 posted on 07/17/2002 6:30:50 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: sinkspur
Willig, died of AIDS after he was exposed as the head of Dignity in Washington, D.C. Willig worked in the NCCB’s finance office, where he had access to all the financial information of America’s Catholic dioceses).

Hmmmm......
78 posted on 07/17/2002 6:46:04 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: aeiou
In my area there were two priests who were involved with teenaged boys for about six years. Why did the so called victims keep going back to the priests for money $$ twice a week to have dirty things done to them? They kept going back until they were in their twenties. They sound like con-artists-homosexuals.

Even if what you say is true, the priests in question were breaking their holy vows to the Church, actively sinning against God, and engaging young souls in active sin. That's devilish in my book. - - But let me tell you what happened in my area. The pastor of a local Church and head of the Church elementary school targeted six young (innocent) boys over a period of ten years. He became special friends with them and with their families (who greatly valued his friendship and association). The boys, in each case, were allowed to spend oodles of time at the Church and rectory, because the parents deeply trusted the priest (and assumed they were right in so doing). The boys were told, in each instance, that they should put great trust in the priest (because he was a priest), and that the boys should be honored to have the priest's attention. The priest began by showing the boys (singly, and sometimes together) homosexual pornographic movies in his office (with the door locked). He told the boys that it was time for them to 'become real men,' and that what was going to happen was the 'normal' progression that all boys went through in becoming men. He started to engage them in masturbation and mutual masturbation. He told them it was important not to tell anyone what was going on, because this intitiation into manhood was always supposed to be private. He told them all men went through this. The boys believed him. The molestation progressed to oral sodomy and anal rape. One boy described how the priest would have him name all the states on the map on the wall while he was being anally raped. If the priest wasn't finished, he would have to name the states again. This continued for several years with each boy - in multiple instances each week. When this came to the attention of Frank Rodimer, our bishop, he tried to cover it up and to quash it. He marginalized the victims, and even ridiculed a couple of them. Only the action of one brave priest led to this becoming public. This happened around ten years ago. Last month, the offending priest (a multiple, serial teenage boy RAPIST) was defrocked. He has never been punished by the law. Rodimer continues as our 'bishop.' I am ashamed of my sodomaniacal Church.

79 posted on 07/17/2002 6:48:28 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: sitetest; sinkspur; 88keys
Honestly, I have to give RCF a lot of credit. They are the only group I know of who is actively out there investigating the clandestine corruption among clerics. Granted, some of their info seems like a stretch, but unlike most of our bishops, the have quite a few scalps on their belt thanks to their investigations.

Personally, I have yet to come to a decision on Bernadin. Based on the 'quality' of the priests and bishops he associated with and the current make up of the UCCB today, and his willingness to tolerate all kinds of liturgical and sacremental 'innovation' I have grave doubts about him. Let's not forget that RCF may have more on him than they've posted on their site...

Think about it. If there were four or five more groups out there like RCF -- digging up damning documentary evidence on our corrupt and corrupting bishops and priests -- would we be suffering through such a terrible scandal right now? (hint, hint, hint)
80 posted on 07/17/2002 7:00:00 PM PDT by Antoninus
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