Planned volunteer-informant corps elicits '1984' fears

Washington Times | 7/15/2 | By Ellen Sorokin

[RISU]

I can remember when "1984" was so far in the future that you didn't care.

Oops, now it is far in the past!

Where did all that time GO!?

[DoughtyOne]

Do away with the constitution? What do you think holding people for months at a time with no formal charges, no legal representation and other such nonsense is? It's a set-aside of the constitution. Some will say that this is simply foreign nationals. I would submit that the same excuses made for these foreign nationals could be used against us if patriot groups were involved. "We can't let them have access to attornies because they'll pass information." We are on a slippery slope into the abyss. IMO

Question: Is there ever a valid reason for civil unrest? Our founding fathers sure felt there was. We are allowing our federal government to put us into a vice-grip that would completely eliminate the possibility of that. Is that good?

As much as I may be against any such thing at the present time, with these new actions by our federal leaders, I believe that civil unrest may be our only option down the road. While I do not advocate civil unrest, let's be honest about this. We wouldn't tollerate ANY of the most recent civil rights violations under an invading force. Why do we allow it from our own government?

[TightSqueeze]

What if Bush is not the choirboy his unquestioning and incurious supporters think?

Well grasshopper, most people would never allow themselves to be cheated by the likes of X42. Rule #1; you can really only be swindled by someone you trust. In many ways we were much better off with Clinton, government was clearly divided and at war with each other, now united the government is able to wage war on its citizens. People get the government they deserve.

[Mr. Bird]

I'm surprised no one is commenting on what a stupid idea it is, regardless of the privacy ramifications. Just as random frisking will give you random success in catching terrorists in airports, receiving all information is the equivalent of receiving none at all.

Intelligence gathering, as in criminal inquiry, relies on appropriate filtering and selection based on current knowledge. To ask a million people to report on activity is like turning on 500 radios and attempting to glean the weather news in a far off state. The info may be there, but it is unlikely you'll find it.

It would be appropriate to identify citizen-spies/informants who lead personal or professional lives that intersect with radical Islam. Maybe a mail carrier in a highly concentrated Arab community in Michigan. Maybe a sporting goods clerk in another.

Those of middle-eastern descent might not like the facts, but they all indicate that the enemy practices a form of radical Islam. Paying more attention to the people in that group could save lives. Paying attention to what happens to Eunice Edmonds of Peoria, Illinois is not a good use of resources.

[DoughtyOne]

Yep.

[Snowy]

We will be as safe with letter carriers and utility workers guarding our "communities" as we are with our current airport security screeners. If that doesn't raise the hair on the back of your head, nothing will.

My hair is now raised....

[browardchad]

It would be appropriate to identify citizen-spies/informants who lead personal or professional lives that intersect with radical Islam. Maybe a mail carrier in a highly concentrated Arab community in Michigan. Maybe a sporting goods clerk in another.

Good point -- but only after thorough background and security checks -- which won't be given to these "skilled?" millions of "informants."

[DoughtyOne]

Good question. I mean, why not go all the way.

[metesky]

The Terrorism Information and Prevention System (Operation TIPS), a national reporting pilot program, is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants — or nearly 4 percent of Americans — initially participating in the program.

Are they using the 1960 census?

The program will allow volunteers, whose routines make them well-positioned to recognize suspect activities, to report the same to the Justice Department, which is running the project.

Wasn't it always a citizens duty to report crimes in progress?

Rachel King, an ACLU legislative counsel, said yesterday the organization is concerned that law enforcement will use the volunteers, especially those whose occupations allow them to enter homes and monitor residents — to search people's residences, without a warrant.

Anybody that comes into my home is monitored by me, not vice versa. If I caught some cable guy going through my stuff, I'd beat like a bass drumm and then have him arrested.

This crap has been going on for thirty years now anyway. Half of the people at "non-mainstream" political meetings are federal or state undercover agents. Everybody cheered when the War on Drugs started using undercover guys and rats, encouraging informants as part of plea bargains, now you're all sh!tt!ng yourselves as the whole scenario reaches its logical conclusion.

[wjcsux]

I agree 100%. The biggest reason the government can take over our lives is the Sheeple who will turn their responsibility for security and personal safety over to the government. It really pisses me off when I see some idiot being interviewed on television being "thankful" that we have government imposed security measures in place.

[B Knotts]

give a fruitcake to the mailman

Wait a sec.

I thought you said not to give anyone reason to resent you! :-)

[nanny]

But I fear, as it is at present, poor Eunice will be 'frisked' more often than prospective terrorists because we must be tolerant.

Yes, I would think there will be a lot of 'tips' for the government to check out. We think these tipsters are already working and so it appears they will be an inexpensive source of information - but someone has to check out all this information. How many people will the government have to hire to check out these tips? Sounds like a good employment opportunity for someone, or a lot of someones.

[Lord_Baltar]

True, but where are all the Bush Bots to 'splain this to us?

[backhoe]

The fact is our intelligence agencies and federal officials f'd up big-time. To save face they are demanding more power as if that was the real problem. "B" "S"! Folks, imagine what happens when the problematic postal worker, meter reader or cable guy decides you're a jerk. He'll be able to report some suspicious activity just to screw with you. We are looking at a total breakdown in our civil rights. Cameras in public places. License readers on our roads. Citizens spying on citizens. I'm be damned if this doesn't sound like Soviet Russia. What's next? Last year they were talking about our children and how they should be evaluated early to decide what career goals they should be forced into. Honest to God, this is exactly what took place in Soviet Russia.

I agree. This stuff is very, very worrisome.

[Diamond]

We wouldn't tollerate ANY of the most recent civil rights violations under an invading force. Why do we allow it from our own government?

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Cordially,

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the quote. It was right on target.

[Tourist Guy]

Guess I better remember to tip my mail carrier well this Christmas, and find out his birthday, anniversary and kid's birthdays and be sure to send some dough (not that I am a suspicious sort).

Although my idea may sound quip, it seems there is no stopping the gestapo train coming down the tracks at us.

It's you and me folks: we are under siege.

[E Rocc]

I say there should be monetary gain for the snitch, for information that leads to an arrest $25,000. if convicted add $100,000. that should insure a steady uninterrupted flow of information,

Most of it bovine excrement.

-Eric

[nanny]

But what if you are monitoring the cable guy (or other) and

• they see some political magazine they feel might be 'dangerous'
• they see that you have a large amount of guns in your gun cabinet and he doesn't know one gun from another, but believes some are illegal
• you are homeschooling and he thinks your children are playing games when they should be studying
• that pot plan looks like, well - pot
• he sees pictures of your babies bare on the bearskin rug and believes it is child pornograpy
• you are doing research on Islam, Al-Queda, etc., and sees the material and is certain you are a terrorist
• you have many nice things in your home and your husband is a police officer - he must be on the take
• etc., etc.,

  There is so much potential for abuse and there are a lot of small-minded, vindictive, or just ignorant people out there.

  By the time you get yourself untangled from the CPS, FBI, ATF, DEA, IRS etc, you are bankrupt and the record will always be there showing you were investigated.

  Yes, we are being spyed upon enough already. Until now, we have had a small feeling of security in our homes. Of course, that was probably just an illusion - it is not even that now.

[Tourist Guy]

>>>True, but where are all the Bush Bots to 'splain this to us?<<<

Where are they indeed. Out to lunch?