FR EXCLUSIVE: Gov. Jeb Bush answers the question -- "Do FL voucher students take state tests?"

Email from Gov Bush to summer | July 8, 2002 | Jeb Bush; summer

[summer]

Thanks, Gov. Bush.

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-----Original Message-----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Date: Monday, July 08, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: quick question

Opportunity scholarship students must take the FCAT grades 3-10. The information on the test goes only to the parent and is not published. Private schools are not graded. The majority of students in private school are using the McKay scholarship. They don't have to take the test. The corporate tax credit students don't have to take the test either.

Jeb Bush

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-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 2:18 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: quick question

Vouchers and Government Control

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Gov. Bush,

A certain voucher question comes up repeatedly on FR.

I tried to answer it to the best of my knowledge on my post #40 on the thread above. Was I correct?

Briefly -- FR posters against vouchers keep claiming the FL voucher students are currently "required" to take all state assessments. But, I say, NO.

Who is correct?

Thanks,
[summer]

[codder too]

Re: Your assertion that an IEP is something like an assessment...

An IEP would serve only as a "guide" for the private school the student is entering, voucher in hand. Public schools MUST follow it, private institutions may choose not to but will probably hear from parents who think that the IEP is the only correct course for their child. They have become accoustomed to demanding services based on it.

The assessments I refer to are the "HIGH STAKES" versions that will be required by every state as part of the "accountability " demands of the "No Child Left Behind" federal legislation that is driving the train.

[summer]

I just don't see how this is going to improve Mollie Ray

Mollie Ray Elementary will now be getting additional funding from the state because it has been twice identified as a failing school (in two years), it will be required to come up with an improvement plan, and there will be significant changes made to ensure it does not fail again.

BTW, it's interesting to note the demographics of Mollie Ray are not unlike a number of other schools in Orange County that were once "F" and "D" but have now improved to a "B" or an "A" -- so, Mollie Ray needs to find out what those schools are doing, and start doing it too.

[stainlessbanner]

I would agree, less students generally equal a better quality of interaction and learning in the classroom. It will be interesting to see what happens when these students leave, taking their vouchers (and money) with them. I think the state will cut positions and programs at the school to compensate for the smaller student body.

I will be watching closely - you know I'm not a big fan of the fcat......but I do support vouchers.

[summer]

The assessments I refer to are the "HIGH STAKES" versions that will be required by every state as part of the "accountability " demands of the "No Child Left Behind" federal legislation that is driving the train.

Well, the assessments you are referring to, as Gov. Bush said in his email posted here, are not required by disabled students on a voucher in a private school.

In addition, he has recently taken actions to ensure there is more fairness in testing for disabled students in the public school system taking state tests.

Finally, as to IEP's -- I don't know if you have ever seen one, but I have, and these are far more specific than a mere "guide." The IEP has learning objectives, goals, etc., and the teacher must note if progress is being made toward such specific goals and learning objectives, and evidence such progress in IEP meetings. These IEP forms are not just 'useless paperwork.' People are relying on that information to make decisions about the child's education. So, in a way, I do think this is a form of an assessment, although it is more along the lines of rubric or a check list.

[stainlessbanner]

BTW, it's interesting to note the demographics of Mollie Ray

I think it's hard to place the demographics of M.R. students against other schools. Upper and middle class students clearly have an advantage going into school.

[summer]

MR is not, by far, the only black, low income school in Orange County. The "A" and "B" schools I am referring to are exactly like MR - black and low income. Not "middle" or "upper" class. Not at all.

[summer]

For an example of what I mean, check out THIS SCHOOL.

[codder too]

The partnership between Corporations and the Public (Government) Schools creates the problem with your explaination. Look at Sen Kennedys Committee name...Education AND Workforce development..

The dollars, no matter the source, are used to train "human resources", once called students or our kids. All the funds end up serving the same system and accountability is via Assessments, as "required" by federal legislation.

The low income public school students who are "not in failing public schools" have been assessed by some method. How else has it been determined that their schools are "not failing" and what is the guarantee that they will continue to perform well? Why would any Corporation be willing to pour in funds with no way of evaluating their investment? I suppose that once a "tax credit" is accepted, versus a free and clear "donation" of funds, the corporation has no say over how the funds are used and perhaps some really don't care. That could be a very troubling explaination.

[summer]

I am sure Thomas Sowell would love to respond to you!

[summer]

Sorry, codder too, I got you confused with capecodder. (too many codders here!)

As to your questions: I do not know. But, this has been a very popular voucher program in its initial year. I will post a link for you.

[Ladysmith]

You are right, I'm intersted in this! Thanks for the ping!

[summer]

Re my post #150 -- here's the link:

Parents snap up school vouchers
[Jeb's 3rd voucher program results in new private schools]

[summer]

My pleasure! Thanks for your post, Ladysmith. :)

[kancel]

>>The ease with which President Bush has signed on to the fed ed agenda is alarming. And he's quite an advocate of "assessments" and "accountability."<<

Mostly I agree with your positions and really this answer has litle to do with the voucher debate.

I have noticed that his assessments and accountability as a President seem to mostly be geared to public schools,he wants them to prove what they're doing (and frankly when it comes to the public schools maybe it would help- especially if those ests are geared to the basics, instead of the extracurricular sex ed etc.).

On the other hand as Governor of Texas he required absolutely no accountability from homeschoolers from what I understand. During his reign Texas became one of the best states, if not the best state, for homeschoolers. Not sure how it was beforehand but I remember Texas Homeschoolers, and by extension other homeschoolers, were extremely strong advocates for him in the Presidentail elections.

I just have to wonder how how he could trust on one hand and notso on the other. I would love to know his explanation of that but unless he is a FReeper I guess I'll probably never know.

[kancel]

>>But, out of 8,900 students eligible for the Opportunity Scholarships (for failing schools), only 374 met the deadline and signed up.<<

This says a whole bunch about (the lack of) parent involvment doesn't it?

I looked up info to see if money might have been an issue for parents but it isn't since the law states a private school must accept the voucher as payment in full for tuition, and of course a better preforming public school wouldn't even have that issue.

[Brownie74]

That incredible exotic dish you wrote to me about on freepmail! LOL! :)]

My pleasure. More people should be gourmets like you and I. LOL!!

I just pinged you on another thread about vouchers. Ciao.

[summer]

Re your post #154 -- ...During his reign Texas became one of the best states, if not the best state, for homeschoolers. Not sure how it was beforehand but I remember Texas Homeschoolers, and by extension other homeschoolers, were extremely strong advocates for him in the Presidential elections.

Other people on this forum have mentioned this as well. Thanks for your posts here, kancel. Who knows, maybe GW really IS on FR... :)

[summer]

Re your post #154 -- ...During his reign Texas became one of the best states, if not the best state, for homeschoolers. Not sure how it was beforehand but I remember Texas Homeschoolers, and by extension other homeschoolers, were extremely strong advocates for him in the Presidential elections.

Other people on this forum have mentioned that as well. Thanks for your posts here, kancel. Who knows, maybe GW really IS on FR... :)

[summer]

This says a whole bunch about (the lack of) parent involvment doesn't it?

There was an editorial published in the Washington Post, and written by a teacher, saying the "ugly lie" about vouchers is this point: there is really no choice for those students who do not have two involved parents.

While I felt she made a point, I also felt she was remiss in not mentioning that whenever anyone tries to promote the ideas of MARRIAGE and FAMILY so that such kids DO have a better chance, suddenly, voices rise up against the very idea of such a thing.

I feel really sad for those kids -- but why do adults think it's a great idea to make babies without a spouse or an income? This is certainly not something I was taught to do -- and, I would never do it.

I looked up info to see if money might have been an issue for parents but it isn't since the law states a private school must accept the voucher as payment in full for tuition, and of course a better preforming public school wouldn't even have that issue.

Thanks for looking that up. Someone asked me that on another thread and I will try to ping them to your post here. :)

[summer]

Re your post 3156 - LOL.... Thanks, Brownie74. :)