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Men filming ferry ride raise suspicion [Tacoma, WA]
tribnet.com ^ | July 7, 2002

Posted on 07/07/2002 4:10:56 AM PDT by TomGuy

click here to read article


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To: CyberAnt
"If you take out a ship that size, you could also plug the channel - such as they did at Pearl Harbor. "

BTW, I recently heard a theory that the Great Depression was sparked by an event that sunk a ship at the entrance to the port of Miami. It was at the height of the Florida Land speculation, and when people couldn't get through for a couple of months, the bottom fell out and began the crash in the whole market. Of course it was just the final straw, not a real cause.

101 posted on 07/07/2002 9:19:15 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: TomGuy
If they were suspicious enough to write an article about, why weren't they suspicious enough for the ferry's crew to radio ahead and have the police waiting at the end of the line to question these people?

This really sounds like a freelance newsie reaching for a non-story.

102 posted on 07/07/2002 9:21:11 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: TomGuy
I don't think Muslims ought to be allowed on ferries in Washington State or anywhere else in the USA.

Just imagine what could be done with 1500 people and 500 cars and blow the whole thing out of the water.

Let the Allah-effers take the long way around, otherwise American ferry riders are not safe.

103 posted on 07/07/2002 9:22:26 AM PDT by crystalk
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To: exodus
"If our nation were serious about stopping terrorism, we would have declared war on Afganistan"

Tactically worthless and legally crippling. That's why Bush didn't ask for it. The rest of your post is psycho-babble.

104 posted on 07/07/2002 9:22:43 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: per loin
Living here and protected by the FiBBies et.al.
105 posted on 07/07/2002 9:26:44 AM PDT by Righty1
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To: Don Joe
WELL SAID.

My sentiments as well.

Track em down; track their associates down. Pin em to the wall and let the families of WTC have at em.

Welllll . . . there would be some merit to that. But I'm glad we don't live in "an eye for an eye" era.

Nevertheless, there's no excuse for not tracking the guys down and deporting them on whatever we can dig up.
106 posted on 07/07/2002 9:26:48 AM PDT by Quix
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To: elfman2
Well ... true, but you wouldn't even necessarily have to destroy the military ship to disable it - in order for it to plug the channel.
107 posted on 07/07/2002 9:29:11 AM PDT by CyberAnt
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To: exodus
from dictionary.com

war    n.
    1. A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.
    2. The period of such conflict.
    3. The techniques and procedures of war; military science.
    1. A condition of active antagonism or contention: a war of words; a price war.
    2. A concerted effort or campaign to combat or put an end to something considered injurious: the war against acid rain.

intr.v. warred, war·ring, wars
  1. To wage or carry on warfare.
  2. To be in a state of hostility or rivalry; contend.

Idiom:
at war
In an active state of conflict or contention.


108 posted on 07/07/2002 9:30:23 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: elfman2
Taking out a ferry or bridge is way too difficult. The force required for that could better be used on a public event to kill or on a multitude of power lines to disrupt. Those tapes won't have much value.

These people were filming in the passanger compartment of the ferry. At the 5:00 o'clock rush hour or after a Mariner's baseball game let's out, the Bainbridge ferry is packed with hundreds of people in a very confined area that is totally isolated from help except for a seaborne or helicopter SWAT assault that would take quite a while to get together on a moment's notice.

The Bainbridge ferry is a public event that is loaded stem to stern with civilian targets at certain scheduled times. It is a prime terrorist target. It is also an extremely soft target.

The tapes have great value in training a terrorist where to stand and shoot or where and when to set off a timed backpack bomb on the ferry in order to inflict maximum civilian casualties. I am completely familiar with those ferries and know what to do in order to inflict that maximum degree of casualties if I were a terrorist. Any Seattle area resident that regularly rides the ferry has that same knowledge. Someone from outside the Seattle area would need those tapes to know what we locals know.

The Politically Correct authorities here is the Seattle area need to start doing less "reporting" and more "holding for questioning" before the Seattle Times and the Seattle PI start asking, "What Did They Know And When Did The Know It" in regards to a future Puget Sound Ferry Massacre.

109 posted on 07/07/2002 9:48:46 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: nicmarlo; per loin
To: per loin
America is at war, and many of the enemy are living among us.
Agreed.
I don't care if taking their pictures of them taking pictures/filming hurts their feeeeeeelings.
# 24 by nicmarlo

*************************

We have foreign enemies living among us,
but that doesn't mean that we're at war.

I actually want to hurt our foreign enemies feelings.

Let's start by profiling everyone who came here
from a terrorist-supporting country,
and send them back where they came from.

Anybody that was serious
about stopping terrorists would do the same.
Notice that our "war" leaders did not.

This war is not about terrorism.

110 posted on 07/07/2002 9:54:53 AM PDT by exodus
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To: TomGuy
Meade "CaptureView" Integrated Binocular & Digital Camera

Thanks for posting this info...very interesting.
111 posted on 07/07/2002 10:03:48 AM PDT by VOA
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Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: elfman2; TomGuy
The "in the box thinking" involves dropping bridges and sinking ferries. Very WWII'ish. Too much effort required for too little return. It would take 100 of them to compare to 911.

If you believe that a Wahington State Ferry only carries 40 passangers each way (40 X 100 = 4000 = greater the the 911 death toll) you have obviously never laid eyes on one of our ferries, elfman2.

It would take two (2) Walla Walla-class ferry sinkings to surpass the death toll of 911.


M/V Walla Walla

Vessel Information:
Type: Auto/Passenger Ferry
Length: 440'
Beam: 87'
Draft: 18'
Max Passengers: 2000
Max Vehicles: 206
Max Commercial Vehicles: 60
Gross Net Tonnage: 3246/1198

113 posted on 07/07/2002 10:17:22 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: TomGuy
To: exodus
from dictionary.com
war :
a) A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict
carried on between nations, states, or parties.
b) The period of such conflict.
c) A condition of active antagonism or contention:
a war of words; a price war
d) A concerted effort or campaign to combat or put an end to something considered injurious: the war against acid rain

*************************

That is the popular definition of the term "war."

Gang war, feuding war, me and you are going to war, war on crime, war on drugs, war for civil rights, none of those are a real war. Yes, you can get killed anyway, but killing is not what defines a war.

War is military conflict between nations, and the power to commit our nation to war is given to Congress.

Congress has not declared war on any terrorist nation. Thus, there is no war.

That puts the "War on Terror" on the same solid footing enjoyed by the "War on Crime" and the "War on Drugs." Just like those other "wars," the "War on Terror" is used as an excuse to strengthen the power of government, and to outlaw the very concept of freedom.

114 posted on 07/07/2002 10:24:03 AM PDT by exodus
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To: RaceBannon; TomGuy; Yehuda; doug from upland; Shermy; BillofRights; christine11; sinkspur; ...
To: TomGuy; Yehuda; doug from upland; Shermy
Death of a thousand cuts.
Hit them at airline counters, parks, ferries
(Because victims cannot escape while you shoot at them),
airplanes, buses, inside buildings...
# 36 by RaceBannon

*************************

Yes, that would work, RaceBannon.
On a disarmed population.
What if the "victims" shot back?

If our leaders hadn't had such success outlawing civilian weapons,
terrorism wouldn't be a threat to our nation.

Highjacking, carjacking, school shootings, armed robbery, muggings, purse snatching, even rudeness take on a whole new diminsion when an armed policeman is standing right beside the violator.

An armed population creates a nation where every man has the power and duty to enforce the law. And that's as it should be.

115 posted on 07/07/2002 10:41:06 AM PDT by exodus
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To: per loin
"Taking over a ferry on the Seattle-Bremerton run is an excellent method for taking out one of our aircraft carriers. "

How big are these ferrys? 100 people? 1000 people?

If they are big enough, they could sieze 3 or 4 ferrys at once and have as big an event as 9-11.

Would the National Guard Jets bomb a ferry full of civilians, in order to keep it away from an aircraft carrier, while news helicopters hovered over head? It would certainly make for some dramatic footage. Just what Al Quaida would like.

116 posted on 07/07/2002 10:50:59 AM PDT by monday
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To: twntaipan
To: elfman2
When I lived in South Africa and travelled to Zimbabwe in the early 80s
you could see the concern about economic disruption in both countries--
primarily by how heavily they guarded electrical substations, as well as fuel depots.
Ours are woefully defenseless.
# 39 by twntaipan

*************************

That's more evidence that our government is using terrorism as an excuse for something else. Imagine a terrorist attack combined with a nation-wide blackout. Imagine a power outage in the middle of the winter. How many northern citizens whould die without heat?

Our leaders don't think the obvious vulnerability of power stations justifies guarding them. Why?

Because that's not the objective of the War on Terror.

The purpose of this war was to dismantle Constitutional protections of our rights in such a way that we would actually support our loss of freedom.

The passage of the Patriot Act,
and the public's support of that Act,
gives our leaders total control over our nation.

117 posted on 07/07/2002 11:00:53 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
Congress has not declared war on any terrorist nation. Thus, there is no war.

Wars are "Declared" only against sovereign nations in order to formally notify them that a state of war exists between two sovereign states. The Declaration of War is a diplomatic formality. A Congressional Authorization of Force fulfills all the Constitutional requirements regarding the war making powers of Congress.

Prior to the Barbary War, Congress debated whether or not to declare war on the Barbary States. Congress decided that the Barbary States were no more than a collection of pirates and to declare war would dignify them with the status of sovereign states. Therefore, Congress refused to declare war and instead passed an Authorization of Force.

As the Founding Fathers who drafted the Constitution were still active in Government when the Barbary War started in 1801, I presume that they knew how to correctly interpret the Constitution that they themselves drafted.

Likewise, the United States never considered the Confederate States of America to be a sovereign nation and war was never declared by Congress during the Civil War.

At the time, the Civil War was referred to as the "War of Rebellion" by the North. War was never declared against the "Rebels" because only sovereign nations merited the honor. However, it was understood by everyone from Abraham Lincoln to the lowest Union private that a "War" was being fought.

Neither the Taliban militia nor the Al Qaeda terrorist network were considered a sovereign nation and therefore a Declaration of War was not appropriate in this war. Like the Barbary Pirates, they merited only a Congressional Authorization of Force.

Whether or not you believe that the Confederate States of America was a sovereign nation deserving of a Declaration of War depends on which dog you have in the fight on the Civil War threads.

118 posted on 07/07/2002 11:03:12 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: monday
How big are these ferrys? 100 people? 1000 people?

See Post #113.

They hold 2000 people.

119 posted on 07/07/2002 11:07:07 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Dave S; GretchenEE
"You stand a greater chance of getting carpal tunnel syndrome hacking away at your computer trying to frighten people so they can be as fearful as you, than you do of ever being harmed in a terrorist attack."

Did it ever occur to you Dave, that some are concerned for people other than themselves?

120 posted on 07/07/2002 11:10:54 AM PDT by monday
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