NUTTIER AND NUTTIER: Muslim woman to challenge ban on veil in driver's license photo

CABLE NEWS NETWORK ^ | June 28, 2002 | CABLENEWS NETWORK

[ZULU]

Muslim woman to challenge ban on veil in driver's license photo

A judge ruled Thursday that a Muslim woman can pursue her legal fight to wear a veil for a driver's license photo, despite objections from the state that it jeopardizes public safety.

Judge Ted Coleman denied a state motion to dismiss a lawsuit brought by Sultaana Freeman, whose driver's license was revoked when she refused to replace her photograph with one showing her face unveiled.

Freeman, 34, is suing to get her license back with a photo that hides most of her face, except her eyes, behind a veil known as a niqab.

Freeman wears the veil for religious reasons.

When Freeman applied for a Florida license last year after moving from Illinois, she had no problems getting a license wearing the veil, said her attorney, Howard Marks. It was only after the September 11 attacks that the Florida Department of Motor Vehicles told her to replace the photo, he said.

Jason Vail, an assistant state attorney, argued that having a face visible in a driver's license photo is a matter of public safety since criminals are often identified through such pictures.

"It doesn't target religion," Vail said of the requirement. "It targets everyone."

[ZULU]

Political correctness gone mad!!!

Don;t they have a law against appearing in public with a mask on Florida that goes back to Ku Klux Klan Days? Why is something bad for one group and O.K. for another???

What's wrong with this picture???

[borntodiefree]

Oh well then, at least the State's Attorney admits that the picture on the drivers license has nothing to do with driving or operating a motor vehicle, but has to do with identifying criminals...ok, that makes it all better now.

[NativeNewYorker]

Chief Judge Ted Coleman, Ninth Judicial Circuit of Florida - Chief Judge Coleman has served the citizens of Orange and Osceola Counties for the last 26 years and oversees an annual budget of $8.3 million. As Chief Judge, the court system has been actively involved in substance abuse cases and associating the trends of drug related issues and how they impact the court system. He has published the Florida Summary Claims Handbook and been an instructor for Statewide Seminars on Creditors Rights and Summary Claims. He serves on the Orange County Bar Association and is involved in several local community organizations.

http://www.orangecountyfl.net/dept/County_Admin/public_safety/DrugFree/DF_Coalition.htm

[A Ruckus of Dogs]

Freeman wears the veil for religious reasons.

Can I have my picture taken with a mask of the Virgin Mary and say it's for religious reasons?

[Texas Mom]

Does this woman also get permission to drive on the freeways with her face covered? This sounds more like a safety issue.

Maybe that's why the Saudi's don't allow women to drive..

[monocle]

Would not abiding by this woman's position be a state action to establish a religion?

[ZULU]

That's the problem. You're a Native New Yorker. Do you know how to punch out chads? How many states do you vote in?

Coleman should have thrown this idiot out of court. Judges don't impress me in general. They're just politicians with legal degrees ( or attorneys with political connections - either way the worst of two worlds.)

[Let's Roll]

Excellent!

[thatsnotnice]

I always thought that the picture was there to identify you as the person who held that license, along with the description. So if your picture cannot be used to verify you as the holder of that license it sort of defeats the purpose...

[stanz]

This is just plain nuts. If she doesn't want to display her face on the license, then she shouldn't be granted one.
The photo is for identification. How can you identify a person through a slit in a veil?Whoever even gives this any room for consideration is also nuts.

[ZULU]

Exactly.

Apparently, this obvious fact escaped the judge.

[elephantlips]

In every state a driver's license is s PRIVILEGE not a right. Either get the photo without the hood or don't get the license.

[scholar]

Geez--wish I had been able to wear a veil for my last BMV photo--really bad!!!!

What the hell is the point of requiring a photo I.D. if you can't identify the subject?

[borntodiefree]

Thread after thread, I ask the same question with no real intelligent freedom based response.

If we live in a free society based on the freedom of the individual, why does anyone need a "license" to travel via foot, bike, horseback, horse carriage, steam vehicle, gas vehicle, whatever?

Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. 486, 489
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."

and

Miranda vs. Arizona, 284 US 436, 491
"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abbrogate them." "The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and trasportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental Right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived."
Chicago Motor Coach vs. Chicago, 169 NE 11
Ligare vs. Chicago, 28 NE 934
Boon vs. Clark, 214 SSW 607
in addition, it can be found in the 25th American Jurisprudence 1st(sp) Highways Sect 163

"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by horse drawn carriage or by automobile , is not a mere privelege which a city can prohibit or permit at will, but a common Right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happines." Thompson vs. Smith, 154 SE 579

[EggsAckley]

A couple of little factoids have surfaced this week. First, this woman is a white American, born and raised here, and is not Arabic. She "converted" to Islam just a few years ago.
Second, legitimate Muslim women in this country DO NOT usually cover their faces; they are allowed to wear a head scarf.
Third, this woman has a black boyfriend, and without knowing his "name" I'd be willing to bet it's some made-up Arabic gibberish name. My money's on the probability that the boyfriend is behind this, and it's nothing more than a "fifteen minutes of fame" scam.

Yup, I'm a skeptic.

[EggsAckley]

Having a driver's license is not a right, it is a privilege.

[ZULU]

There is a Constitutional Right to own a firearm, not a vehicle.

But that is really not the issue here. The issue is -everyone else has to have a photo taken for their license plate so the driver can be identified. Where does this idiot get off with this dumb veil stuff??? How can you identify a veil? The only reason the judge let her get away with the suit is because veil-wearing is not a Christian custom. If it WAS, you can be sure he would not have been so politically "correct."

[NativeNewYorker]

Do you know how to punch out chads?

I think I punched him out in high school. :)

[ZULU]

I figured she was American and probably white. But she is still a Muslim and that is the source of her suit. But then anyone wacky enough to convert to the "peaceful" religion is capable of anything.

[borntodiefree]

I agree having a drivers license is a priveledge, the question as stated above is "Is traveling by any means foot, bike, motor vehicle on a public road in a free country a Right or a Privilege?" Please see the case notes. I have more if you would like them.

It really is a simple question and a simple answer, people have just been brain washed by beurocrats and the media.