Posted on 06/28/2002 7:13:41 AM PDT by white trash redneck
I agree that the US government takes liberties and I am not defending their policies. The rights of US citizens have been further eroded after the tragic events of September the 11th. 'Carnivore' violates the US Constitution, the current fears over more al Qaeda terrorism allow its existence to be justified.
You make Russia always out to be the bad guy, try focusing on your so called "free" West.
Now why would I think Russia is the bad guy? Perhaps because it continues to sell weapons systems and nuclear technology to China, North Korea and Iran, countries which are dedicated enemies of democracy.
As for the Brits "holding" the emails, do you really believe that they are not scanned?
They may be, but if they are then the British government has violated the law. Unlike in Russia, our government has some respect for the rule of law.
Just like all that digital video collected is instantly destroyed if a crime isn't seen....way to tempting to too many powers.
How much do you think it would cost to keep millions of hours of video of innocent behaviour, for any significant length of time? Let alone to have someone watch all of it and make notes on the movements of law abiding civilians. Only a totalitarian country like China, or maybe Russia, would go to all that trouble and expense.
As for selling weapon systems, got news for you, England sells to more then a few questionable regimes...granted compared to US or Russian equipment, English equipment is pretty much second class these days....but: Jordan? A country that initiated several wars and tried to exterminate a large portion of its own population...Egypt?...yeah, Britian is quite guilty in that department too, all the countries are. Just because you don't consider who you sell to as a threat, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Russia wanted Saudi Arabia bombed...but to England and America it was a friendly nation...a friendly nation that sponsers half the terrorist/jihad groups in the world and is now reported as trying to purchase large quantities of WMD....so much for friendly.
But I bet Britain doesn't sell to China, North Korea and Iran. Its strange how Putin sucks up to the Americans to get financial aid and is keen to ally Russia to the USA in its war on terrorism, but simultaneously helps the USA's most deadly enemies.
These countries are hardly in the same league as China and North Korea.
why not show us poor Russians how it should be done and lead by example...
Because we know from bitter experience that Russia will just continue to flout moral and legal norms for its own advantage, regardless of anything we do.
England is America's lapdog.
I can't disagree with you here. But the main reason for this is the cold war and your country's behaviour during that period.
Without the US, England would be a second rate European power...as is, the Falklands almost broke England's back...pretty far drop from Empire to second rate power.
Yes, a second rate European power with the fourth largest economy in the world and the third largest up until last year. The Falklands conflict hardly broke England's back, since it was handled entirely by the professional armed forces. Russia would have just sent a few thousand untrained conscripts to be slaughtered.
As for the British Empire, good riddance to it, hopefully Russia will learn the high human cost of maintaining an empire before its too late. But knowing you nationalistic Russians and the low value you put on human life, I sincerely doubt it.
Ah, so by your moral logic, well, we think we can't trust you so we'll continue to do bad things our selves, instead of setting the moral example and then bitching....so, with your hands in the cookie jar and supporting known terrorist nations, soon to be on the axis of evil, while yourselves providing vast areas for recruitment and training of Islamics, you bitch at us? Very English of you....kinda why you lost that old empire feeling.
As for England's status...I've got news for you, 12 years ago, the Cold War ended...why has England become even more of a client state of America...but for you it's a choice between the US client state or the EU client state...I'd go with the US. England seems to have been made for servitude.
Read up on the Falklands, the Royal Navy scrambled almost all its resources and even that was almost not enough. If the US hadn't been continually selling you its satellite resources you might not have won with your "Royal" army. Now full of transgenders and janies in the front ranks....heard the EU was going to make you have invalids too.....that should be a hoot. But soon enough you'll all be Janisaries for the upcoming Islamic rulers of the Island.
You are a fan of colonialism then are you? The fact that Britain has stopped pursuing a policy of wanton colonialism is a positive attribute as far as most civilised people are concerned. I suppose being Russian you are not so "civilised".
As for England's status...I've got news for you, 12 years ago, the Cold War ended...why has England become even more of a client state of America...but for you it's a choice between the US client state or the EU client state
Russia and the former Soviet republics are just as dangerous now as they used to be. Europe is weak and has no real military powerhouses, therefore, Britain obviously has to stick with someone who can balance us against you Russians.
Read up on the Falklands, the Royal Navy scrambled almost all its resources and even that was almost not enough. If the US hadn't been continually selling you its satellite resources you might not have won with your "Royal" army
Yes, the Falklands conflict required a large logistical operation, since it was on the other side of the world. The Argentinians had a major advantage as they are very close to the Falklands, but they still lost.
One of my uncles's friends was a corporal in 2 PARA and he fought at Goose Green. He said that many of the Argentinian officers just deserted their conscript troops and left them to face the paratroop regiment alone, of course the Argentinians lost and their military dictatorship fell. Kinda like your country wouldn't you say Stavka?
Yeah, I hear it in the streets all the time, invade England, surround England, bomb London to the stone ages...whoops, guess that must have been Yugoslavia and the streets were in W. Europe. But what ever excuse you need to make to yourself to make your client status pallitable...it's ok by me. Do you mind if America just goes ahead and adds a few stars to the flag for you and Canada? Might as well make it official like.
As for the Falklands, seems that the Argentine Republic is reeving up for Falklands II, we'll see how you go this time, maybe your Blair dictatorship will fall?
Argentina was a military dictatorship when it invaded the Falklands in 1982. In 1976 a military coup occurred in Argentina. The new government banned all political parties. For 8 years, the government conducted a "dirty war" against opponents. 9,000 people 'disappeared', never to be seen again. Later, it is admitted that many were tortured, drugged and dropped from aircraft into the sea.
Pregnant women with the wrong political affiliations, or relatives, are kept alive until the birth of their child and then killed. The child is farmed out to orphanages to be adopted by military families and supporters of the regime. Up to 500 children are kidnapped in this way; many being raised by their mothers' killers.
One victim was Silvia Quintela, a doctor who attended to the sick in shanty towns around Buenos Aires. Quintela was abducted off a street by military authorities because of her political leanings. At the time, she and her agronomist husband Abel Madariaga were expecting their first child.
Quintela is held at a military base called Campo de Mayo, where she gives birth to a boy. The infant is separated from his mother. Quintela is transferred to a nearby airfield. There, victims are stripped naked, shackled in groups and dragged aboard military planes. The planes then fly out over the Rio de la Plata where soldiers push the victims out of the planes and into the water to drown. Relatives of the regime's victims still march every Thursday at the Plaza de Mayo in Buenos Aires looking for justice.
A nuclear submarine torpedoed the Belgrano, afterwards British naval forces backed off, to let the Belgrano's destroyer escort pick up the survivors. They didn't bother to pick them up, virtually the whole crew was lost. Rather sums up the Argentinian national spirit.
This brutal military dictatorship collapsed shortly after they lost the Falklands conflict against Britain.
If they try to invade the Falklands again, then they had better be ready to take heavy casualties, they certainly weren't last time. Britain has early warning stations and patrolling naval vessels. We can use our superior professional armed forces to inflict heavy casualties on them again.
The people of the Falklands want to remain part of Britain, not part of a corrupt bankrupt dump - like Argentina. A lot of money has been spent on the infrastructure of the Falkland islands and the fishing industry and tourist trades are booming there. Any half-arsed Argentinian who pokes their nose in, is liable to get it shot off.
Tell that to the prosperous pre or post Colonization Africa about how bad it all was...nothing like missionaries bringing education and medicen...now that they are all free of the evil Europeans they are free to starve, die of disease and have fun exterminating each other...
Some of South Africa's greatest hits, which you no doubt fully approve of, since you are a die hard colonialist.
1949
Apartheid (separation of races) is implemented in South Africa by a government elected by the people who benefit from apartheid (30%) and not by its victims (70%).
Apartheid laws segregate the races (who are classified by the state), ban inter-racial sex or marriage and define where people are allowed to live. Even beaches and park benches are segregated. The USA and Western Europe continue to trade and support this government even though it oppresses a large number of people.
1952
In South Africa, non Whites are compelled to carry passes. These pass laws will cause much resentment amongst the population.
1955
South Africa leaves the United Nations after being censured over its apartheid policies.
1960
Over 70 people are killed in Sharpville, South Africa while demonstrating against the pass laws. These laws require non-Whites to carry documentation or else face imprisonment
The African National Congress (ANC), an organisation seeking a multi-racial state with universal voting rights, is banned in South Africa.
1964
Nelson Mandela is imprisoned for 27 years in South Africa. He becomes the world's most famous political prisoner. During his imprisonment many Western leaders support and trade with South Africa and call him a terrorist.
South Africa creates Bantustans, areas where ethnically cleansed black people must live. Only white people can vote (30% of the population). Opponents to the regime (both black and white) are assassinated, exiled, imprisoned and tortured.
1966
South Africa extends its apartheid laws to its colony South West Africa (later Namibia). The United Nations requests South Africa to withdraw from the territory.
1970
Within two years, 2,000 people are arrested and tortured without trial. The native Aymara and Quechua people are ordered off their land and deprived of tribal identity. Tens of thousands of white South Africans are enticed to immigrate with promises of the land stolen from the indigenous people. Catholic clergy who aid the victims are harassed and killed.
1976
Over 170 unarmed demonstrators are killed in South Africa. Over 1,000,000 black South Africans are deprived of citizenship in the Transkei.
1977
Steven Biko is one of many dissidents murdered by police in South Africa. The events surrounding Biko's death are covered in the UK made film Cry Freedom.
1978
In the Kassinga refugee camp in Angola, over 600 civilians are killed by the South African military.
1979
Over 100 children are killed by police in Central Africa. They had been protesting against having to buy all their school uniforms from shops owned by the president. This country is backed by France and financed by South Africa and USA.
1980
South Africa attacks dissidents in Angola.
30 protesters are killed in South Africa by police.
1981
A major invasion of the southern part of Angola occurs. 11,000 men and several battalions of tanks and armored cars are deployed in Cunene province. Over 80,000 people become refugees.
South African commandos raid Maputo, the capital of Mozambique. They begin to create, arm and deploy special military units in Mozambique to attack roads, railways, bridges and other economic targets, as well as to terrorise in rural areas.
South African agents carry out sabotage and assassinations in Zimbabwe. South Africa (with help from the USA's CIA) attempts to mount a coup against President Kaunda in Zambia. In addition to these military activities, South Africa begins a full scale economic war against Angola, Lesotho, Mozambique, and Zimbabwe.
After being elected to the USA presidency, Ronald Reagan states that closer relations with South Africa are a means "to counter Soviet influence in southern Africa". Another example of how your country forced the west to embrace evil regimes.
1985
18 demonstrators are killed by police in South Africa.
1986
30 demonstrators are killed in South Africa. South Africa attacks targets in Botswana, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
A nice colonialist nation for you, its a shame you didn't go and live there.
As for the S. Africa bit...well, got to call you a liberal again...you just keep pulling their tricks. Thought you learned the last time with the AIDS bit, guess not. Never did I say that I was pro segregation, the areas you colonize, you bring into your Empire as equal parts of your Empire, that is how you keep your lands, yours. You Brits never figured that out, the French did, with Algeria, but they unfortunetly have this bad habit of giving up and didn't have the will to fight. So, try again not to put words into peoples mouths...it'll only make you look silly. Oh, and for the record....S. Africa has really come a long way and so has the rest of the African contenant since colonialism collapsed: why they are #1 in AIDS, STDS, Turbucloses and other disease (yes India still is #1 in the Black Plague, but we'll see). #1 in famine, dictatorships (closely fought over by the Arabs), war, brutality, lack of education and civility and destruction of infrastructure... they are also #1 in hand outs....something for the whole continent to be proud of.
You've said it, the Argentinian government always do this when they need to make a patriotic stand to get public support. It doesn't mean that they will invade the Falklands again. Personally, I would put an ICBM silo on the Falklands and tell them that if they try to invade, Buenos Aires will be nuked.
As for the S. Africa bit...well, got to call you a liberal again...you just keep pulling their tricks.
I am not a bloody liberal. Anyone can see that in the vast majority of cases colonialism throughout history has been synonomous with subjugation. You may wish to distance yourself from the latter and claim that you can have compassionate colonialism. But that is a nonsense, since in order to utilise someone else's country you have to control it, which inevitably brings you into conflict with members of its population who don't wish to be controlled.
Thought you learned the last time with the AIDS bit, guess not.
You argument regarding AIDS and homosexuality was bogus. The fact that you repeat such tripe shows you are a hypocrite, since you condemn gun-control advocates for their equally stupid arguments.
Never did I say that I was pro segregation, the areas you colonize, you bring into your Empire as equal parts of your Empire, that is how you keep your lands, yours.
That's impossible. People can always remember the time before they were part of your Empire and what was good about that time etc. Hence there will always be a group who do not wish to be part of your Empire, for whatever reason, and who take up some form of resistance, eventually leading to a conflict.
Oh, and for the record....S. Africa has really come a long way and so has the rest of the African contenant since colonialism collapsed: why they are #1 in AIDS, STDS, Turbucloses and other disease (yes India still is #1 in the Black Plague, but we'll see). #1 in famine,...
Life for the native South Africans was always like that, they had the worst of everything. Ever heard of Soweto? Tuberculosis was rampant there, as was starvation. Of course that didn't worry the South African government because they wanted to reduce the native population in that country. Their Bioweapons program was even trying to develop an agent to render a person sterile, the intention was to sterilise the natives and thus ethnically cleanse them. The South African government didn't have the guts to set up Gulags like your country did.
I have shot holes in most every argument you put up, right through your "facts" but you keep pressing, conviniently ignoring everything...and I even gave you sightable evidence....if that's how it's going to be, waste some one else's time.
You may not have said it in so many words, but the article you posted used that argument. If you hate homosexuals just say so, don't hide behind propaganda. I find homosexuality rather disgusting myself. But if people wish to engage in an activity with another consenting adult, which does not hurt anyone or damage their property, then in my humble opinion that is their prerogative.
I have shot holes in most every argument you put up, right through your "facts" but you keep pressing, conviniently ignoring everything...and I even gave you sightable evidence....if that's how it's going to be, waste some one else's time.
My dear sir, I appreciate many of the facts and arguments you put forward, but sometimes I disagree with the conclusions you draw from them. I do respect you for your obvious intelligence and wit. I was interested to find out that your screen name means the Slavic spirit of righteous resistance to the NAZI invasion of WW II. Have I got that right? Very patriotic of you.
Do you know where I can find some of the original articles that the pro-gun lobby cite regarding the lack of a "self defence" excuse under British law. I searched the "Bang list" but it doesn't go back far enough to find two articles I heard about. One was about a man who was arrested for having a couple of knives in his car which he used in his work at a factory, and the other was about a home owner who was jailed after he threatened a burglar with a replica gun. Do you know any freepers or NRA people who would be able to find these articles?
In the light of your comments I am re-examining my position on the right to bear arms issue. Thanks for your help. How is life in Russia?
Again something you don't seem to understand. I first of all, didn't say in any words, stop as always trying to put them in my mouth. Secondly I am not hiding behind the propaganda ... something you don't seem to understand is I am an Orthodox Christian and our motto is: hate the sin, love the sinner.
Actually it also is the name, since the advent of the modern Russian army (read under the Romanovs) of the Russian High Command.
As for the right of self defense, armed self defense, I fully believe in it and though it is extremely politically incorrect to say, it works. An armed public is a safer public. Most criminals have courage only when they think they are the only armed ones. That is why Mom&Pop liquer stores in most of America do not get robbed all that often, as opposed to corporate stores....they KNOW grandpa is packing something and is more then willing to make them into fertilizer.
Look up some of my posts to you, previously, I posted those articles.
maybe that should try them in Congress!!!
GREAT idea!!
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