China to Buy 8 More Russian Submarines

Washington Post Foreign Service ^ | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 | John Pomfret

[Momaw Nadon]

BEIJING, June 24 -- China has begun negotiations with Russia to buy eight more submarines in a $1.6 billion deal that will significantly boost its ability to blockade Taiwan and challenge U.S. naval supremacy in nearby seas, Western and Russian sources said.

[Momaw Nadon]

I thought Pootie Poot and Russia were on our side now.

[defenderSD]

The Russians are always just looking out for their own interests. We're also selling diesel-powered subs to Taiwan, which will make it difficult for China to actually invade the island. China will probably never blockade Taiwan, they just want to be able to threaten a blockade. If they ever actually blockade Taiwan, you'll see the biggest airlift in history. Fedex will be an absolute beehive of activity.

[SAJ]

Kilo-class? Oooooooo. Sca-a-a-ary.

Why not throw in a few Charlies and Whiskeys, too? Puh-lease...DIESELS? In 2002? Well, I needed something to cheer me up.

Thanks!

[lavaroise]

Diesels are quiter than nuke subs, in part because nuke subs can never shut down.

[Jackie222]

If they ever actually blockade Taiwan, you'll see the biggest airlift in history. Fedex will be an absolute beehive of activity.

LOL.....

Struw, looks like the USN will get that target practice you were speaking of.

[SevenDaysInMay]

I read somewhere this AM that we no longer make diesel subs; Germany and the Netherlands do, but will not cooperate with us as suppliers of either boats or mfg. licenses. Taiwan will not get their subs.

As Wal-Mart's primary supplier, Red China can pay cash for these subskis.

[defenderSD]

As far as I know, we no longer make diesel subs. But I read somewhere a few weeks ago that an American company had quietly bought a controlling interest in a German company that makes diesel subs. I'll have to look around for that news item. If Germany doesn't cooperate that will make it more difficult. But if we own a controlling interest in the German company, then we'll get a mfg. license or at least access to all the blueprints. Of course, you have to remember that this kind of high-level political stuff is not business as usual. So normal business practices will not be followed here and some of what you see in the media may be disinformation. My bet is that if Bush wins reelection then Taiwan gets their subs in 2007 or 2008.

[Non-Sequitur]

South Korea just completed half a dozen subs for their own navy. They are a potential source. Another alternative is the Taiwan shipyards themselves.

[Bogey78O]

Somehow I don't see Jiang Zemen being too worried about violating the One China principle. It's typical really. We sell a boat to Taiwan and the Chinese get biligerant. Russia sells 8 Subs to China and they act like it's no bog deal.

[antidisestablishment]

What were you saying about the Chinese Navy? Looks like a good start.

[Teacher317]

Diesels are quiter than nuke subs, in part because nuke subs can never shut down.

Then why are the super-quiet Seawolf subs nuclear-driven?

"Designed to be world's quietest submarine, Seawolf is reportedly less detectable at high speed than a (super-advanced and also rather quiet nuclear-powered) Los Angeles-class submarine is while sitting at the pier."

Hopefully your post will be addressed by a FReeper expert. I'm just Google-ing my way through it. =^)

[Poohbah]

8 diesel boats equals (at most) four deployed.

Diesels are essentially minefields with extremely limited mobility.

The solution is simple: mine the PRC ports and wait.

[Poohbah]

With U.S.S. Seawolf, Robinson's writing began to go downhill. It got really bad in his latest book.

[Teacher317]

OOPS! Looks like protracted searching produces unexpected results once again!

From this very informative webpage:

"However, specialists have repeatedly said that the noise level of a nuclear submarine is higher than that of a diesel submarine running on batteries.(26)

This fact may be explained by several reasons. First, like a diesel submarine, a nuclear submarine may work at a minimal speed, running off the storage cells (batteries). However, the submarine's nuclear reactor continues working and this is an additional source of noise (point to lavaroise!). Second, the displacement for nuclear submarines usually exceeds, by several times, the displacement of diesel, and this requires a greater power to weight ratio. In our calculations we made the assumption that within a "quiet" mode the difference in noise level between strategic nuclear submarines and diesel submarines, which were developed at the same time is 10 dB. "

[lavaroise]

Wow. Pretty good info.

[lavaroise]

bump

[Vigilanteman]

The solution is simple: mine the PRC ports and wait.

Wait for what? For Wal-Mart to run out of stock?

[Poohbah]

No, you wait for the diesel boats to run low on fuel, food, and torpedoes. Which doesn't take very long.