Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is a search warrant needed? (vanity question)
City of Olivia ^ | May 2002 | Bill Miller, Mayor

Posted on 06/24/2002 5:21:17 PM PDT by Hunble

CITY OF OLIVIA

ORDINANCE NO. 269

AN ORDINANCE PROHIBITING DISCHARGES INTO THE SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM AND TO PROVIDE FOR INSPECTION OF PROPERTY TO DETERMINE ILLEGAL CONNECTIONS TO THE SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM AND TO PROVIDE A SURCHARGE FOR NON-COMPLIANCE WITH INSPECTION AND CONNECTION REQUIREMENTS.

WHEREAS, the City Council of Olivia, Minnesota finds that the discharge of water from any surface, groundwater sump pump, roofs, yards, lawns, streets, alleys, footing tile, or other natural precipitation into the sanitary sewer contributes to the flooding and overloading of the sanitary sewer system. Such overloading of the sanitary sewer system may result in sewage flowing into basements and/or residences and businesses, creating hazardous public health conditions and significant damage to properties. The City, therefore, determines that this ordinance is necessary to protect the health, safety, and welfare of its citizens through the regulation of connections to the City's sanitary sewer system.

NOW THEREFORE, the City Council of Olivia, Minnesota does ordain:

SECTION I - DISCHARGE PROHIBITED. Except as otherwise expressly authorized in this Section, no ponds, water fountains, water from any roof, surface, groundwater sump pump, swimming pool, or other natural precipitation shall be discharged into the sanitary sewer system. Dwellings and other buildings and structures which require, because of infiltration of water into basements, crawl spaces, and the like, a sump pump discharge system shall have a permanently installed discharge line which shall not at any time discharge water into a sanitary sewer system. A permanent installation shall be one which provides for year round discharge capability to either the outside of the dwelling, building, or structure, or is connected to a storm sewer or discharge through the curb and gutter to the street. Within the home or business, the sump pump discharge pipe shall consist of a rigid discharge line, without valves or quick connections, that would alter the path of discharge. However, if the line is directly connected to a storm sewer line or catch basin a check valve and an air gap are required.

SECTION II - INSPECTIONS. Property owners shall allow an employee of the City or a designated representative of the City to inspect the buildings to confirm that there is no sump pump or other prohibited discharge into the sanitary sewer system. The City may periodically re-inspect any building or premise to determine compliance with the requirements of this ordinance.

SECTION III - REMOVAL OF CONNECTIONS. Any property owner who previously made any connection or installation in violation of this ordinance shall immediately remove such connection or correct such an installation. If not removed or corrected within 30 calendar days after notice of the violation has been delivered personally or by certified mail to the owner, the City may impose a surcharge in the amount provided in Section IV of this Ordinance. Such a surcharge may also be imposed upon any property owner, after a 30 calendar day notice has been delivered, and if the owner refuses to allow their property to be inspected. The owner of a building or premises found to be not in conformance with this ordinance during periodic re-inspections may be subjected to a surcharge as provided in Section IV of this Ordinance.

SECTION IV- FOUNDATION DRAIN TILE

Future Homes and Businesses: Groundwater from foundation drain tile for future homes and businesses shall not discharge to the sanitary sewer system. The groundwater shall flow through the tile and drain to a sump basket and shall then be pumped and discharged to the exterior of the structure with the use of a sump pump.

Existing Homes and Businesses: Some existing homes and businesses may have been constructed with groundwater from foundation drain tile discharging to the sanitary sewer. If the connection of the foundation drain tile to the sanitary sewer pipe is on the exterior of the home, the connection will be considered grand-fathered and disconnection will not be required. If the connection of the foundation drain tile to the sanitary sewer pipe system is on the interior of the home or business, the connection is considered "not in compliance" and the owner is required to correct the improper connection. Any connection considered "not in compliance" shall abide by the sections contained in this ordinance.

SECTION V - SURCHARGE. A surcharge of One Hundred and 00/100 Dollars ($100.00) per month is hereby imposed on every sewer bill to property owners for the following conditions:

1.) not in compliance with this ordinance

2.) refusal of property inspection

SECTION VI - NON-PAYMENT OF SURCHARGE. If the surcharge is not received by the City of Olivia, the City reserves the right to assess the property owner the unpaid balance.

SECTION VII - EFFECTIVE DATE. This ordinance shall be in full force and effect from and after its passage and publication.

A MOTION WAS PASSED AND ADOPTED THIS _____ day of May, 2002 by the following vote:

YES:

NO:

City SEAL:

_________________________________ _____________________________

Bill Miller, Mayor Michael Funk, City Administrator


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: inspections; ordinance
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last
I do not have a Sump Pump in my home and I fully understand the need for this ordinance. Perhaps I am being rather silly.

But as a good Freeper, I also understand the dangers of allowing government inspectors into your home without a legal search warrant.

If someone had just asked nicely, I probably would not have gotten ticked about this issue. However, that $100 per month if I do not allow them into my home, got me little upset.

A surcharge of One Hundred and 00/100 Dollars ($100.00) per month is hereby imposed on every sewer bill to property owners for the following conditions:

1.) not in compliance with this ordinance

2.) refusal of property inspection

Well my fellow Freepers, should I demand a legal search warrant first?

1 posted on 06/24/2002 5:21:18 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Hunble
should I demand a legal search warrant first?

Not if you want to pay the $100 each month from now on. :)

2 posted on 06/24/2002 5:24:18 PM PDT by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
You may have given the utility an easement when you purchased the property. I'm not sure how well that can be fought...
3 posted on 06/24/2002 5:26:06 PM PDT by evolved_rage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
No need,tell them to piss off,but be ready to battle it out in court.

How many lizard skins are you willing to put up?

4 posted on 06/24/2002 5:26:11 PM PDT by mdittmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: evolved_rage
You may have given the utility an easement when you purchased the property. I'm not sure how well that can be fought...

That is why I was asking the smart Freepers. Perhaps this is all nice and legal. In a tiny town of 2,500 people, the idea of pissing off the local government is not my idea of fun.

However, we all know how local governments tend to forget about little details such as the Constitution and Laws. Sometime you need to remind them about those.

5 posted on 06/24/2002 5:31:08 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
99% will allow entry because they realize it is in the public interest to do so. If entry is refused, this new law and some sort of probable cause, (not related to the refusal) would get them a court order ofr entry (aka "search warrent".)

Try to keep them out when they have a court order and you can be in deep kim chee.

Also remember, while there, if they see your kids marijuana plant, (?) that discovery is admisable

Fight when its worth fighting for.
6 posted on 06/24/2002 5:31:38 PM PDT by MindBender26
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MindBender26
Also remember, while there, if they see your kids marijuana plant, (?) that discovery is admisable.

NOT that I have anything to hide, but as you stated, anything else they find while performing a simple Sump Pump inspections would be admisable.

Today, there was a good posting about vehicle inspection check points and what to do. That got me thinking about this simple inspection of my own home.

7 posted on 06/24/2002 5:43:01 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
No warrant required for a health related administrative inspection. You don't let them in, and you'll be paying the fine and have no legitimate legal ground to stand upon.
8 posted on 06/24/2002 5:47:58 PM PDT by DryFly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
I read this through a couple of times, and while I am not familiar with the specifics of Minnesota plumbing codes, this ordinance would be in violation of most state's codes.

Generally, any sump pump, floor drain, etc where there is any (however remote) chance of any pollution source entering that drain or sump, the drain or sump must be discharged to the SANITARY SEWER.

If a toilet ran over, a car leaked oil on the floor, etc., and made it's way to a drain or sump that discharged into the storm sewer you would be in violation of FEDERAL regulations governing stormwater runoff that the EPA initiated in the mid 90's.

9 posted on 06/24/2002 5:49:31 PM PDT by Ford Fairlane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DryFly
No warrant required for a health related administrative inspection. You don't let them in, and you'll be paying the fine and have no legitimate legal ground to stand upon.

Thanks for that wise information. Just out of curiousity, can you cite any legal references? You are probably very correct, but I would like to read the actual text.

10 posted on 06/24/2002 5:51:44 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
In some places a public charitible trust owns the sewer lines - not a government at all!

Now, should you allow entry to folks whose utilities you are connected to? Most likely - else you might get stuck with the cost of their lawyer to go into court and argue some well settled law.

Alternatively, they could just unplug you at the D-Mark (where your line ends and theirs begins).

11 posted on 06/24/2002 5:52:26 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Ford Fairlane
Generally, any sump pump, floor drain, etc where there is any (however remote) chance of any pollution source entering that drain or sump, the drain or sump must be discharged to the SANITARY SEWER.

I know, this ordinance seems strange to me. With a town of only 2,500 people, they probably only have a large septic tank for the sanitary sewer. I do understand the need for this ordinance, since a flood last year totally saturated the sewer system.

I just question their methods.

12 posted on 06/24/2002 5:59:50 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
A town that size probably just has a big lagoon, possibly with a simple pretreatment system.

If the lagoon were to run over, the city would be in trouble with the EPA

I am a Professional Engineer in Illinois and it would not meet Illinois code, But I have also done some work in small communities in Missouri where their "plumbing code" would not have met Illinois code 40 years ago.

Generally the less populated the area, the more they can get away with.

13 posted on 06/24/2002 6:08:47 PM PDT by Ford Fairlane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
Cities and Bergs are always passing unconstitutional regulations and as long as they are not challenged they usually stand.

Their little regulation would not stand up to constitutional muster, but who is going to go to the trouble and expense of fighting it in court?

14 posted on 06/24/2002 6:13:09 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ford Fairlane
Thanks for your replies, since you have provided the best information so far.

If I allow them to enter my home, they will find that the basement drains directly into the sewer system. The toilet, shower and any flooding of the basement has a single drain pipe under the floor.

I leaned this the hard way just last week, when that single pipe got clogged. Raw sewage flowed all over the basement floor. After that happened, I wished that I had a sump pump to get the water out of the house and into the street.

Oh well, perhaps I am in the wrong and will just let them inspect the house. What the heck, Laws regulating what the government can or can not do no longer mean anything today.

Just fight the big fights!

Unfortunatly, by the time you need to fight the big fight, you have already lost.

15 posted on 06/24/2002 6:19:15 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
Raw sewage flowed all over the basement floor

This happened to my grandmother's house last month when we got 10" of rain in 1 week. First time anyone remembers in 30+ years there was water in the basement.

If I was you , I'd find a copy of the state plumbing code & look at it so you know where you stand before the city people come to inspect things. A bigger library might have one, or find a friend of a friend who is a plumber that will let you look at his.

The stupid things cost at least $100 if you buy one from the state.

16 posted on 06/24/2002 6:44:07 PM PDT by Ford Fairlane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
The other way to fight city hall is run for alderman or city council. If you can't beat them join them, and become a royal pain, and possibly turn the tables on them and enforce some arcane law against them.
17 posted on 06/24/2002 6:57:22 PM PDT by chainsaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ford Fairlane
Thanks, and perhaps this ordinance does not apply to me. The way I read it, if I do not allow the original inspection, the ordinance does not apply to my premis.

The key words here are buildings, premis and re-inspect.

SECTION II - INSPECTIONS. Property owners shall allow an employee of the City or a designated representative of the City to inspect the buildings to confirm that there is no sump pump or other prohibited discharge into the sanitary sewer system. The City may periodically re-inspect any building or premise to determine compliance with the requirements of this ordinance.

SECTION III - REMOVAL OF CONNECTIONS. Any property owner who previously made any connection or installation in violation of this ordinance shall immediately remove such connection or correct such an installation. If not removed or corrected within 30 calendar days after notice of the violation has been delivered personally or by certified mail to the owner, the City may impose a surcharge in the amount provided in Section IV of this Ordinance. Such a surcharge may also be imposed upon any property owner, after a 30 calendar day notice has been delivered, and if the owner refuses to allow their property to be inspected. The owner of a building or premises found to be not in conformance with this ordinance during periodic re-inspections may be subjected to a surcharge as provided in Section IV of this Ordinance.

18 posted on 06/24/2002 7:06:59 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
This is wrong really. Just another abuse of government power. Tell them you are drilling a private well on your property and installing a private septic system and they will stop you from doing that too. Tell them you don't want water or sewer and they will condem your house. Well you must have these two utilitys. So they have you by the *****. The best thing to do is to find a home a good 20 miles from any of these City systems. The right to a search Warrent is a thing of the past. And you will find that most freepers these days have no respect for that right anyways. This is far from the only reason they don't have to get one these days. In effect any government agency can search a residence anytime they want just by using the power of another. Pretty scary stuff. Not to many here have any fear as long as GW is king.
19 posted on 06/24/2002 7:16:59 PM PDT by Revel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revel
My wife is getting all upset. "Why are you fighting such a simple request?" Besides, we do not even have a sump pump!

WHY....

Because I still believe in the rule of the law. As I just posted, the actual language of the ordinance does not require an original inspection of a premis.

Thanks to my fellow Freepers tonight, the answer was staring me in the face. Law makers use precise language in their laws, and they will be more than happy to use that language to obtain additional money from average persons who do not read the fine print.

This Freeper has been well trained to actually study the language used, and not the implied meanings.

"I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky" is the classic examples. To Bill Clinton, a "blow job" was not having sex. Although he was guilty, the implied meaning was just the opposite.

When a cop stops you and asks: "May I look in your trunk?", all you have to say is NO. However, if you are feeling guilty and want to demonstrate your innocence, then you just gave him full legal rights to do anything he desires. What happens after that point is your own darn fault.

20 posted on 06/24/2002 7:38:52 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson