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To: Dominic Harr
OK Dom old buddy let's look at this shall we. Post 17:
Absolutely correct. I had an application that took me eight weeks to code and test in ASP.

Now at this juncture we already know that his estimate includes more than just code because he specifically lists test. We can make the intuitive leap that the rest of the dev process is rolled into his estimate (which I did), but let's not. We can also make the intuitive leap that there's a back end to this thing because there are very few front end only apps in this world, and that the development was done in parallel during the 8 weeks (which I did), but let's not. We've still got more than just coding time in the estimate.

Now then you ask some stuff and in post 23 he answers:
It was a custom reporting application. The user enters parameters into a Web Form, then ASP.NET fires off a series of SQL Server stored procedures. A background process runs MS Access to generate Word .RTF report files, and ASP.NET provides the user with links to the newly created files. Not a huge and complex enterprise application by any means, but there were plenty of tricks to work around.

Now at this juncture we know a fair spot about the app. We know it does have a back end. We know it has Access and Word macros written in VBA. And we know it's not large, but it's clearly a little complicated. Once again we can figure this development went on in parallel and was part of his 8 weeks (which I did), but let's not.

You ask some more questions, and begin "correcting" his estimates. In post 40 he replies:
Ever hear of business requirements? Systems analysis? Changing user specifications? A good portion of that 8 weeks was irreducible, regardless of platform.

And now he has outlined everything we could have guessed from his original post. Of course that was all pretty straight forward right up top when he said a rewrite in Java would only take two weeks. Why would a rewrite of the front end take 1/4 the time? Maybe because so much of the development process is done, you did the requirements and system analysis and have customer buy in. You've also done the initial logic so a rewrite really is nothing more than rewriting the code, all that extra stuff is done. Of course anyone familiar with the development process knows that about 2/3 of your time is spent on stuff before coding begins. Gee 2/3, that's very close to 3/4. So that estimate could possibly mean that that indeed the rewrite would not require that pre-code time. you think? Maybe? That's what I thought.
145 posted on 06/25/2002 11:35:43 AM PDT by discostu
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To: discostu
We know it does have a back end.

And the back-end wasn't in ASP, therefore was clearly not part of his, " I had an application that took me eight weeks to code and test in ASP."

This is amazing.

His clear statement, "code in test in ASP" you insist on claiming means, "full dev life cycle, including the non-ASP stuff".

He said 8 weeks for the ASP stuff alone. Then he explained what ASP stuff he meant.

His statement was clear, and you're trying to backpeddle so fast you're going to trip. 8 weeks to code and test in ASP. He then made clear what was coded and tested in ASP.

Then he admitted he meant only 1 week coding and testing in ASP.

Is this saying a lot about trying to have a conversation with you? If you're willing to twist the obvious?

146 posted on 06/25/2002 11:41:10 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: discostu
Hmmm, is this another MS 'definition' thing, like 'innovation' means 'copy another product'?

Maybe I do just need the MS guide to the English language. Clearly words don't mean the same things to ya'll that they do to the rest of us.

148 posted on 06/25/2002 11:43:16 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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