[Dominic Harr]

I will let you slide on this one

You'll "let me slide" when I was right . . .

Well, that's the closest you've ever gotten to honesty, so I'll take it.

Seriously, if you just wish to flame folks, can't you find another thread? We were trying to discuss .NET here.

I've specifically said .NET is good. It's starting to look like it is a requirement of a .NET thread to never mention Java or any non-MS technologies. Apparently the .NET salesmen can't take an open tech discussion.

It's the wierdest thing.

I bought my wife one of those brand new Hyundai Santa Fe's over Christmas. When talking to the salesman, I brought up things like "the Toyota seems to hold it's value better" and "the chevy gets better milage".

He didn't once get angry.

That's an interesting paralell for another reason -- one of my concerns about the Santa Fe was that it is a brand new line, with no track record (much like .NET).

The salesman was understanding when I said that worried me, and he explained how they were worried about that problem too, so he offered me the extended warranty (10 year, 10,000 miles) for a discount.

He made the sale.

*That* is how I expect MS salesmen to act. Don't attack/insult/flame anyone who suggests that there are other good solutions out there. That kind of high pressure tactics does not work with savy consumers. And you have to have the savy developers, if you want .NET to succeed.

[discostu]

That's a nice story Harr but none of us are MS salesmen. You want to know how MS salesmen handle thing I suggest you call their marketing department. We're just guys doing our job that work at varying degree of closeness with/ for MS. When you go running around saying MS has duped the consumer you're saying we're dumb, because we ARE the consumer you say is duped. So we react defensively. On the other side of that you react defensively to any assault on your entrenched position (just look at you conspiratorial excuse writing off that HUGE list of places deploying .Net as nothing more than "MS partners") which really does make reasonable discussion with you kind of pointless. On the one had you insult us (I don't think you mean to, but you do) and on the other you refuse to listen to anything we say (again I'm not sure you mean to, I think you have strongly held beliefs and your bar of proof against them is just too high for anyone not named God to achieve... and I'm not convinced you'd believe God if He came down and told you MS made good stuff).

If you want these to be reasonable discussions you've got to tone down the rhetoric and tune up the ears.