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TANCREDO, IMMIGRATION REFORM CAUCUS TO CALL FOR TROOPS ON BORDER
Immigration Reform Caucus ^ | 6/17/02 | Immigration Reform Caucus

Posted on 06/17/2002 1:50:25 PM PDT by Tancredo Fan

STEIN REPORT XXXXX Monday, June 17 2002 14:53:17 EDT XXXXX

TANCREDO, IMMIGRATION REFORM CAUCUS TO CALL FOR TROOPS ON BORDER

Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) and other members of the House Immigration Reform Caucus will announce a new border security initiative at a press conference tomorrow. See the Immigration Reform Caucus release for more information.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crime; illegalimmigration; immigrant; immigrantlist; invasion; nationalsecurity
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To: PRND21
I think we all know what two replies to the same comment means...
Happy treading.

That I was getting bored thinking you might have direct answers to serious questions?

That while on the subject of fallacies (a subject you brought up with a false charge of ad hominem against me) I thought I'd go back a few posts and dredge up one of you earlier beauties that I'd politely ignored?

Both, actually.




241 posted on 06/19/2002 12:21:22 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Pelham
I've told you before that I am a white American.
That would make you a liar with no arguement.

Liars, blowhards and grandstanders seem to gravitate towards Tancy, et al.
Fitting but sad.

Happy frothing, boys.

242 posted on 06/19/2002 12:22:21 AM PDT by PRND21
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To: nanny
You and I can argue that they are "invaders" all we want, but it doesn't mean a thing. If there is an invasion, then the military should attack mexico, THAT'S what the military os for, to do what you promote is to declare the US at war, and us citizens under martial law.

Sorry, it will never happen. Enforcing immigration law is not a duty of the DoD, it is a civil matter.

243 posted on 06/19/2002 2:15:29 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Zack Nguyen
"The army will not be controlling the movements of American citizens..."

Theoretically, they would be controlling any and all point of entry into the US, including every mile of shoreline, every international airport, every sea port, every train and bus station where people are arriving from either Canada or Mexico.

Is there some common identifying, readily visible mark that all citizens have that would make it possible for the Army to just look at you and figure out whether you're a citizen or an alien?

Can they figure out on sight that I am a naturalized citizen in spite of my obvious Hispanic looks? Will they be able to differentiate between an American of mexican descent from El Paso, and a well-dressed border crasher from Mexico DF?

244 posted on 06/19/2002 2:24:16 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Sabertooth
Look, I gave you my thoughts, I'm not looking for a fight on the minute details on what to do. There are sufficient mechanisms in place to deport illegals, and most of the questions you asked are issues that need to be settled by each state, States rule, it matters very little what I think.

One last thing, I understand your hard-line stance on law breakers...should the US government go after each and every tax cheater out there? Are you in favor of massive INS audits to find and punish tax cheaters?

245 posted on 06/19/2002 2:30:41 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: 4Freedom
Your estimates are based on Coast Guard boats being lashed to each other, fore to aft, from one end of the Great Lakes to another.

No, they're based on the requirement to check every damn lumber barge coming from Canada BEFORE they dock--or even get close to shore, for that matter (Canada has the world's worst immigration enforcement--they make our border look like the old Berlin Wall), establish a surveillance grid covering the lakes, keep a sailing plan for every boat on the US side of the lakes, track every boat and intercept any of them behaving suspiciously (the Great Lakes have a LOT of small boat traffic), the need for multiple patrol boats per patrol station (patrol boats do not have long-term crew accomodations or self-repair facilities; they must come into port frequently for upkeep and crew rest), the need to maintain their boats and aircraft (for every boat in the water, there's at least one in drydock), PLUS perform the other Coast Guard missions in the area.

Of course, if you just make it a 9-to-5 Monday-to-Friday mission that involves sailing around the Great Lakes and not doing anything useful...yeah, no need for greatly enlarging the Coast Guard.

Either come to a solution for the problem (invade Mexico and replace their government with something more to our liking) or admit that you don't have a clue.

246 posted on 06/19/2002 5:06:32 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: 4Freedom
The military won't be arresting anyone on the border. The military will be repelling illegal alien invaders.

Which means that they will be operating at every port of entry--including every international airport, every train station that handles traffic from Canada, and every stretch of highway within 100 miles of the border.

Now, maybe you like the idea of being under martial law. I don't.

247 posted on 06/19/2002 5:10:11 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: nanny
Now what is your solution? To do nothing, while this country goes down the tubes.

No, it's to either enforce the laws of the United States using the powers of the duly constituted civil authorities, or, if the only way to solve this problem is to use the military, to invade Mexico, remove its governing institutions, and replace them with ones more to our liking.

Actually, as to the distinction of using a military only against a military, I believe I heard that fighter planes are now going to be given the orders to shoot down hijacked planes. Actually, 9/11 was not a military action (in your distinction), but would you have used the military to stop that if you had the opportunity?

Wow, did you think up that bit of sophistry all by yourself, or is Glenn Spencer emailing you talking points?

Contemplate carefully the differences between the environment of aircraft operating in the sky and armies operating on the ground.

Now examine the areas where the US has been successful in employing the military as border defenses. They have typically involved areas where the main threat is invasion by a large, organized, and mechanized army. Where the US military has NOT been successful has been in dealing with small groups of unarmed (or even only lightly armed) people who are at best only loosely organized crossing a border. Again, our experience in Kosovo is particularly instructive: we are successfully keeping the tanks and artillery of the VJ (the Yugoslav Army) out of Kosovo, and failing miserably at keeping the KLA and its hangers-on out, despite the fact that we're actually spending a lot more effort on the latter task.

The new 'armies' coming against us are not of the tank, helicopter, big gun type, at least from what I see. So what do we use against them?

We use the duly constituted civil law enforcement power. Just because you call them an "army" doesn't make them an army.

I am serious when I ask for a solution. Many on here disagree as to the solution - so what would you do?

First, I would not use the military for a law enforcement problem.

Second, I would actually enforce the law.

However, to do that, you're going to have to quit talking to the people who already agree with you that it's a problem, and talk to the large mass of folks out there who do NOT see it as a serious problem--or only see it as an abstract problem, and don't back concrete efforts to fix it.

And, finally, if you see a truck with both a large number of day laborers and an americanpatrol.com bumper sticker out there on the freeway, tell the idiot driving it that he ain't helping matters any...

248 posted on 06/19/2002 5:24:19 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: PRND21
You believe that the drug smugglers, terrorists, Russian Red Mafia, Japanese Yakuza, etc. are coming to the United States to take regular jobs and not commit crimes?

We need walls and the military on those walls to stop those invaders.
249 posted on 06/19/2002 5:49:17 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Poohbah
I'm glad you won't be anywhere near any of the border security plans that'll have to be developed to get the borders under control. You sound like you've turned every aspect of your life into a 'Chinese Fire Drill'.

We'll be confiscating every boat we capture that is found to have illegal aliens on it.

We'll put the onus on the owners of the big lumber boats, etc. to increase their own security and check everyone's identification. If we find illegals on their boats, their ships and cargos are all forfeit.

The proceeds from the auctions go to support our border security efforts.

It's the bad guys that are going to run out of boats, not us.

I hope the auctions start soon. I could use something in the 26' to 30' range. How about you?
250 posted on 06/19/2002 6:05:21 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
Great. Let's EXPAND the current massively unconstitutional practice of asset forfeiture. And from a guy calling himself "4Freedom," no less. You really are a waste of DNA, food, and oxygen.
251 posted on 06/19/2002 6:14:30 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Get out of here. You're vastly expanding the scope of the military's mission to perpetuate your ridiculous 'myth of the police state' and the only person on this thread that will pretend to not see through your ploy is PRND21.

The border patrol and INS agents will handle the border check points, train stations and interior highways.

The 73,000 new federal employees hired for airport security will handle the airports.

After all, you don't want them just sitting around on their big,

Federal Air Transportation

Airport Security Service

jackets? Do you?

LOL!

252 posted on 06/19/2002 6:19:30 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Poohbah
You're confusing 'Freedom' and 'License', again.

I'm not for anybody's 'Freedom' to commit crime. I guess you are.
253 posted on 06/19/2002 6:24:54 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
And that's standard response #3,187 from the folks who make a living engaging in asset forfeiture.
254 posted on 06/19/2002 8:20:46 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
The criminals will have fair warning that whatever possessions they use in the commission of a crime, against the people of the United States, will be forfeit.

We can't be any fairer than that.

If they don't want to lose their assets, then they shouldn't commit crime.

I hope they use their nicest, best maintained boats, first. I don't want to be buying any junk at auction.

LOL!

255 posted on 06/19/2002 8:39:51 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
"Mr. 4Freedom, we saw an illegal alien relieving himself on your lawn. Because of your unwillingness to properly secure your property against illegal aliens, we are seizing your house and all financial assets you own. We're the government, we're here to help you."
256 posted on 06/19/2002 8:44:36 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
That's almost your dumbest post, yet. Almost.

LOL!
257 posted on 06/19/2002 8:58:03 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
It's just what you advocated.

If it's my dumbest post, it's only because of the abysmally low quality of argument you used, pal.

258 posted on 06/19/2002 9:05:38 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
I advocate the seizure of a 30', 2002 ChrisCraft, that has 8 illegal aliens hiding in the cabins below decks, and then the boat being auctioned off to me.

That's not nearly the same as your ludicrous fear that your house will be forfeit, if an illegal alien is observed relieving himself on your lawn. That is unless the illegal alien is living in your house.

LOL!
259 posted on 06/19/2002 9:36:08 AM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"The Solution Pt. II---Quit building manufacturing plants in China and build them in Mexico. Create jobs there."
Does the Bush family have interests there?
260 posted on 06/19/2002 9:48:50 AM PDT by Scarlet Pimpernel
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