Skyline Drive Lesbian Murders (1996)(Condit-Levy)

6-17-02 | crystalk

[crystalk]

You see where I am headed. Where is the evidence the two young women EVER CAMPED IN THE PARK AT ALL. Isn't it more likely this was an elaborate cover, while they were in fact somewhere else such as in Luray less than 10 miles away, or in DC some 85 miles away?

Where is the evidence they could ever have carried all this equipment, food, etc. They were not marvels of strength or physical stamina.

If the girls had been dead 200 yards from the paved road for 5 days, with countless tourists and hikers passing in the immediate area, why did not their dog appear to the people, or at the Lodge, until SATURDAY June 1?

Looks like a Conditcide or Arkancide to me!

[crystalk]

crystalk ping

[aristeides]

I forget where the victims lived. Was it in the D.C. area? Would they have had occasion to meet any of the prominent lesbians in the Clinton administration?

[aristeides]

If they were going to visit friends in Baltimore, there's a good chance they would have known Caity Mahoney (one of the founders of the Lesbian Avengers in Baltimore) or friends of hers.

[CapandBall]

There is no "Skyline Lodge" in the SNP.

[crystalk]

Your post is just the kind I hate. Picky, picky. SkyLAND Lodge, but it is on the SkyLINE Drive, much more famous name and word, I will just betcha that 90% of Virginians call it the SkyLINE Lodge. For you, SkyLAND, SkyLAND....

For a recent story redacting the crime after discussing the suspect in Va prison...try

http:www.readthehook.com/stories/2002/04/18/explosivewords.html

[crystalk]

To the picky: Yes, I also forgot the two slashes after the http:// in the foregoing.

This story, newer than my info when I wrote the above, also notes that their tent was actually in site of a horse trail and a fire road as well as being some 200 yrds from SkyLAND Lodge.

Could it have stood there for a week without having a ranger approach and ask for their permit, or having some curious dog sniff the corpses and whine?

I say no. I say the bodies were brought there and we were set up with another pretty picture.

[drjimmy]

This partial transcript from "America's Most Wanted" differs quite a bit from your description of Williams/Winan and their time in the park:
[Host, John Walsh] On May 18, the experienced backpackers decided to go exploring. They set off from Vermont and headed south to central Virginia to the Shenandoah National Park. Julie and Lollie arrived at the northern park entrance on May 19th, and got a camping permit for two nights. They stopped at Pinnacles' Overlook on Skyline Drive. Lollie's dog, Taj, went along on the trip. The FBI and Park Rangers retraced Julie and Lollie's trip and put together a timeline, using snapshots the women took themselves. May 20th, Julie and Lollie hiked down White Oak Canyon Trail to experience the spectacular waterfalls. Despite two days of rain, they got an extension on their camping permit at Thornton Gap on May 22nd.

[Ranger Barbara Stewart] They had registered to go backcountry camping from, I believe, the 22nd to the 27th of May. When I got a chance to talk to them about, you know, about other things, just in the few minutes, I liked them, and, I didn't know their names then, but they were nice folks.

[Host, John Walsh] On May 23rd, Julie and Lollie hiked to Pollocks Knob on the Appalachian Trail. They took this photo below Crescent Rock Overlook.

[FBI, Bill Falls] Friday, on the 24th, is the last day that we actually have pictures of them.

[Host, John Walsh] Julie and Lollie hiked up Hawksbill Mountain, the highest point in the park, and took a break with Taj at Bird's Nest Two. Tired from the trek, the women hitched a ride from Hawksbill, stopping near Skyland to find a campsite for the night.

[Ranger Clayton Jordan] One of our Park Rangers drove them to a parking lot located at the top of this trail and that is the last confirmed siting of Julianne Williams and Lollie Winans alive.

[crystalk]

Right, I admit skipping over details of what they did May 19-24, for presumably that was less important to their deaths and the probable cover-up on that.

The fact is that the official story says they camped virtually on top of the busiest spot in the SNP no later than Monday afternoon 5/27, and that no curious ranger or dog approached that tent until searchers did so on Sat nite 6/1.

If you would contend they really DID camp until May 24, it would have no impact on my thesis that they did NOT, at the location where found for that last week when the official stories have them lying there dead, with their dog who knows where, but giving no alarm.

In other words, the minute they come off the mtn on 5/24 your story segues into mine. For eight days we are together. They were never seen alive again after the 24th, and it seems utterly impossible they can have been where found for more than a matter of hours without being spotted, in part for violation of park rules.

[oldironsides]

To bad Dr. Scarpetta could not help?

[drjimmy]

You weren't just "skipping over details of what they did May 19-24," you explicitly claim they must never have camped in the park at all, and somehow make the leap that it is "more likely" they went to Luray or DC. Thank you for posting the link to the recent news article. It gives even more credence to the likelihood that Darrell David Rice murdered the women. The only similarity between this case and the Chandra Levy murder is that a guy named Darrell may have been involved!

[crystalk]

You are just shooting at targets of opportunity. I stated openly that I was giving just the bare bones of the story. Some glitzy show like AMW hardly is a hard source, or one likely to give anything controversial.

Nothing you have presented can explain where the girls were for 8 days from May 24 to June 1, nor why their plans changed, nor satisfy the obvious panic of Mr. Winans.

Nor does it give any evidence whatever that they were camped in the park at all on or after the night of May 24, much less at the site in busy public use--in which their bodies were found on the night of Saturday, June 1.

[crystalk]

Further, your story does nothing to establish that they actually CAMPED. Why did rangers never come upon their tent in the early evening as they try to do, to check permits and make sure all is well?

Your post from AMW differs from my original post only in saying that they obtained permits first for two days, then five more...where mine (from memory) says they obtained them first for five days...then three more.

BOTH STORIES STATE ONLY THAT PERMITS WERE OBTAINED. Neither story says that any ranger ever actually saw their tent pitched, or where they were or had been camping.

Nothing was seen of that nature until 8:30 pm on Sat. June 1, and by then their bodies indicated they had been dead (officially) for nearly 6 days, though other stories I have read say that med examiners can really only say they had been dead somewhere between 5 and 7, or 8, days....

[CapandBall]

I live 10 miles from Skyland, every Virginian I know calls it Skyland. It is the highest lodge in the park.

Where is the evidence they could ever have carried all this equipment, food, etc. They were not marvels of strength or physical stamina

It is not tough to carry gear & 10 days of food, especially when you are only going a few miles, we use a device called a "backpack".

[CapandBall]

In the SNP the restriction for backcountry camping are strict. Specifically, unless in a designated area, you must camp at least 50 yards from any trail or water, and 100 yards from any road, and not be visible from the trail or road. Park police go out looking for people camping and breaking these rules, and handing out $$$ tickets for violations.

You must stealth camp or you will be ticketed.

[M. Thatcher]

Your post is just the kind I hate. Picky, picky.

You post a pretentious "invitation" for "persons" to use a search engine and then have a hissy fit when people post information they find.

You are a consistently nasty poster who should learn some rudimentary rules of civility.

[drjimmy]

You post incorrect "facts" in your story and then draw the conclusion that because of a lack of evidence to the contrary, they must have met up with Gary Condit or his minions in Luray or DC. Talk about "shooting at targets of opportunity"!

[crystalk]

You are more Making than Disproving my point, for the official story would have it that their tent in violation of these rules, was right on top of the Skyland Lodge...and never found, never ticketed, even with dead bodies in it, for all of those days...

What is the chance of that? Why so many posts which pick at oversights or lapses of memory on the part of this poor old human being, but which do not invalidate my thesis...

... and none that would (if valid) actually prove they (1) ever camped; (2) were still camping after 5/24; (3) were lying dead for 5 or 6 days very near the Skyland Lodge, and (says the hook article) within sight of a dirt road and a horse trail?

The fact is, their friends strongly expected them the evening of 5/24 in Baltimore; the father of one was completely panicked by the morning of 5/27; and yet the official story is they were camped practically in the yard of the Skyland Lodge, but never made a phone call, never bought a meal or supplies, never appeared in public even on the trails or roads anywhere near there, for a week or so. Gimme a break.

[crystalk]

You seem to think that if I say Skyline instead of Skyland, it somehow invalidates my theory. I have never contended that Condit killed Winans and Williams; I have only said this murder looks a lot more similar to the Levy/ Mahoney/ Chiang/ Arkancide kind of political killing we have seen so much of...than to the pretty picture we have been given on the surface.

If I am wrong, I have once again entertained you for an evening by giving you somebody to shoot at.

I warned you that this was the bare-bones outline of the crime, that I was writing from memory, and that more detail is very available on search engines if anyone wants it. Those stories, BTW, however, tend to differ from each other as much as mine does from any one of them, so be forewarned!