Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Group wants to tax espresso for child care (with poll to FReep)
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer/AP ^ | 6/1/02 | MELANTHIA MITCHELL

Posted on 06/01/2002 4:05:20 PM PDT by ppaul

It's a tax that could hit Seattleites where it really hurts: their coffee mugs.

A group of child-care advocates, seeking more money for early education, filed an initiative Friday that would place a 10-cent city tax on Seattle's lifeblood -- espresso drinks.

But in Seattle, where voters have already voted to tax their tobacco, their meals and their hotel rooms, among other things, initial word of the proposal caused barely a jolt among the area's latte lovers.

"Coffee, in a way, it's kind of a luxury item," said Patty Grazini, who frequents the Diva Espresso Bar in Seattle's Greenwood district. "As long as the money went to the programs it was supposed to, I would support it."

The Early Learning and Care Committee, which is made up of parents, teachers and child-care directors, expects the tax would raise $7 million to $10 million a year in this coffee-addicted city.

The money would be used to increase wages for child-care teachers, assist low- and middle-income families in obtaining quality child care and increase the amount of high-quality care in Seattle, said Lisa Moy, campaign manager.

The committee has until early August to collect the necessary 17,228 valid signatures needed to get the initiative on November's ballot.

But Diva Espresso barista Melissa Petersen wasn't so sure the initiative was such a good idea.

Another 10 cents is a lot to ask for a drink that's already pretty expensive and can cost $3 to $4, she said.

"They've got a smoking tax, regular taxes, why not a yuppie tax," Petersen said sarcastically.

Grazini, 50, averages about two cappuccinos a day and has no problem flipping the bistro an extra dime or two. The tax would bring the cost of her daily caffeine dosage to about $4.20, or an additional $73 a year. A person that has one drink each workday would pay an extra $26.

Moy said taxing espresso drinks is a guaranteed source of income in Seattle, where many residents can't get through the day without a caffeine hit.

Drip coffee would not be taxed and espresso seemed the most obvious choice that would not burden any particular economic group, Moy said.

"We know that the city of Seattle voters are dedicated to their children," Moy said. "This is one way they can enable children more access to quality pre-kindergarten care."

Since the tax would apply to businesses that gross more than $50,000 annually, Moy said Starbucks and Tully's Coffee -- Seattle's main coffee contenders -- were told of the group's plan.

In a prepared statement, Starbucks said the company did not understand why the group "would recommend an additional consumer tax on espresso beverages, or any other single consumer product, to fund this initiative."

Company spokeswoman Audrey Lincoff would not comment further.

The increase would do little to effect business at Diva Espresso's four locations in Seattle, said manager Stephen Johnson.

"Regular customers would initially notice, but they would adapt to it very readily," Johnson said. "I think coffee's a pretty strong drug.

Read the article and FReep the poll HERE.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: childcare; coffee; communism; espresso; ittakesavillage; seattle; socialism; tax; taxes; welfare; welfarestate
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-49 next last
To: jrp; meyer; timestax
"As long as the money went to the programs it was supposed to, I would support it."

Useful idiot.
The "programs" are as bad as the tax. Socialism, plain and simple.
I don't want any of my hard earned wages going to these "programs".


21 posted on 06/01/2002 10:49:41 PM PDT by ppaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ppaul
NO: 69.9%
22 posted on 06/01/2002 11:04:39 PM PDT by brat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: brat
Wow!
It was at 70% NO earlier.
The socialists must be voting later.
We'll see what happens after the bars close.
23 posted on 06/01/2002 11:07:19 PM PDT by ppaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: ppaul
Coffee, in a way, it's kind of a luxury item," said Patty Grazini, who frequents the Diva Espresso Bar in Seattle's Greenwood district. "As long as the money went to the programs it was supposed to, I would support it."
What a bleeping idiot.
24 posted on 06/01/2002 11:11:13 PM PDT by Libertina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libertina
Actually, I think she makes a sound argument for a change. I mean the liberal yuppies always yodel about how the rest of us should pay more in taxes. Well, the way I see it is if they are so in love with higher taxes, let them pay from their own pockets for a change. And starting with a dime extra for that overpriced cup of bilge they call latte at Starbucks is exactly what they ought to be doing. Since they claim its all for the children, its about time they put their money where their mouths are.
25 posted on 06/01/2002 11:15:32 PM PDT by goldstategop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ppaul

It's totally voluntary whether anyone goes in to hire someone to make them a latte. No one is forcing them to part with their dime. And since the proposed tax has to be approved by the people of Seattle in the initiate process, presumably at least 50% have to agree to it first, which has to account for some measure of justice. Perhaps the argument can be made that only if two-thirds approve would the proposal become law rather than a simple majority; who would want a tyranny of 10,000,000 tyrants? But to characterize it as a theft of one's wages is disingenuous, no? I for one do not subscribe to the often advanced view that any taxation is theft or any local program or initiative is socialist or any expression of the majoritarian will is tyrannical. We're a democratic republic, and it is well within the Constitution of Washington and well within the constitutional city charter of Seattle to allow the initiative process. People are able to vote on the initiative, and even vote with their feet and wallet if they don't like the outcome. That's the nature of freedom. Now consider whether it is rather socialistic to deny people their right to raise taxes if they want to for any program they desire.

You do live in Seattle, don't you? Then just vote "No" if you don't like the idea. Otherwise, you really have no voice on the local issue.

26 posted on 06/01/2002 11:24:25 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
Or you're free to leave Seattle for the Red Zone if you can't stand Blue Zone America any longer. Its still a free country and there are still places that don't tax you to the max.
27 posted on 06/01/2002 11:27:12 PM PDT by goldstategop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop
OK except that I also like to buy "designer" coffee on occasion and I don't want even one penny more, much less 10 cents, to go to the WA State government... (Who already managed to drive out Boeing,(with a really BIG impact on our economy.)
28 posted on 06/01/2002 11:29:49 PM PDT by Libertina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop
Exactly. People can vote with their feet and their wallets as well as with their ballots. Seriously, people often willingly place more than a dime into the tips jars for the overpriced lattes they buy. I just don't see the big uproar over the local issue.
29 posted on 06/01/2002 11:30:08 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
Great profile page.
30 posted on 06/01/2002 11:30:39 PM PDT by ppaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: BurkeCalhounDabney

Not really. While the government is the proposed vehicle for the collecting of the proposed $10 million dollars a year for day care, the funding is totally voluntary based upon the free will purchase of overpriced lattes in trendy coffee shops where the tips jars themselves receive much more than 10 cents per sale. Furthermore, the recipient of the taxes does not necessarily have to be a gray bureaucratic agency where as someone conjectured only 25% of the funds would go to helping children. The recipient could be a private agency with an excellent track record and a high service to overhead ratio. These are local issues which the good people of Seattle I trust can figure out for themselves.

32 posted on 06/01/2002 11:43:13 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Cultural Jihad
- Government-funded daycare is unadulterated socialism.
- Not really.

Huh?

34 posted on 06/02/2002 7:59:34 AM PDT by ppaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
Exactly. People can vote with their feet and their wallets as well as with their ballots. Seriously, people often willingly place more than a dime into the tips jars for the overpriced lattes they buy. I just don't see the big uproar over the local issue.

I would agree, except there's fewer and fewer places to run to where they haven't tried to take an ever-increasing amount of our pay. I wouldn't object to any of this if the vote on such a tax were limited to the people who were actually paying it. But that isn't the case; the vast majority of Seattlians (or whatever they call themselves) are probably not "designer coffee" drinkers so they probably don't mind taxing someone else.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not necessarily against all government programs. A few actually work. But the problem here is that those voting aren't the ones paying. Its that simple.

It would be as if all the people in your community decided to add an income tax, but only to those whose name included the word "Jihad". Sure, you can vote against it, but you're the only "Jihad, C." in the phone book. Minorities enslaved by majorities = pure Democracy.

35 posted on 06/02/2002 8:05:23 AM PDT by meyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop
Agreed. And at $4.00 a day for a latte with about 260 work days in a year, each consumer spends over $1,000 a year for their bilge they could be making themselves at home for a fraction of the price. That convenience comes with a hefty pricetag.
36 posted on 06/02/2002 11:10:48 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: ppaul
I would imagine, if the law is passed, coffee shops will quickly begin serving "lottes" or something similar. They'll change the drink just enough to avoid qualifying for the government mandate. Idiots.
37 posted on 06/02/2002 11:17:49 AM PDT by NittanyLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ppaul
The article in the Bellingham Herald, regarding the latte tax , stated that the money would be used for early childcare education classes, not higher pay.

Now which is it?

I assumed that they were talking about boosting the amount of subsidy given to welfare moms to pay for childcare (1.25/hr). It is very difficult to increase wages of self-employed individuals. The classes necessary to become licensed are already dirt cheap. It is not the cost of the classes that prohibits daycare workers from entering the field. It is the fact that anyone smart enough to get a junior college degree is not dumb enough to want to run a daycare.

38 posted on 06/02/2002 11:27:01 AM PDT by Eva
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
No thinking adult wants government to run programs that compete or encroach into their business or livelihood. When it comes to children all of a sudden it is great to have the government run the show? Most government run K-12 school are not teaching children to read and do math at a level that is desirable, so why do you want the same people to run PreK, taking it away from the private sector?

TA's Wife

39 posted on 06/02/2002 12:01:04 PM PDT by Truth Addict
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Truth Addict
I said above, there is no inherent requirement that the funding go to a government agency. No one's taking anything from anyone. Ideally there should be no day care at all. Mom should stay at home and raise her own children instead of hiring a bunch of uncaring mercenary grubbers to do her job for her so that she can get that BMW or that boat or that ski vacation at Aspen.
40 posted on 06/02/2002 12:25:04 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-49 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson