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1 posted on 05/22/2002 7:51:19 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Good news and should help pay off government credit card debt that is so prevelant with military personnel.
2 posted on 05/22/2002 7:58:50 AM PDT by TADSLOS
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Are Civil Service and Military pay still tied together?
3 posted on 05/22/2002 8:03:30 AM PDT by Grut
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Remember that military personnel get (especially REMFs):

30 days (that is 6 weeks) of paid vacation a year
Average a 3-4 day weekends nearly every other week
Paid to work out/exercise
Can not be fired (ie kicked out of the army)
Can not be laid off
Full benefits (health, dental, 401k, etc)
Need only 20 years until full retirement
etc.

It is not really comparing apples to apples. And what do you compare (in the civilian world) to a Ranger or SF?

No flames - I have lived in both worlds
5 posted on 05/22/2002 8:18:27 AM PDT by 2banana
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To: Stand Watch Listen
In my opinion there are three groups which should be amply conpensated: the military, especially combat troops; policemen; school teachers. The other side of the coin would be standards for these position would be extremely high, with only the best qualified and most dedicated accepted. Those who violated standards or failed to live up to their promise would be cut.
7 posted on 05/22/2002 8:19:04 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I retired from the Army. I can remember getting about $96/month when I first went in. It wasn't enough. I remember getting about $55K/year when I left. It wasn't enough. The medical care was never all that great for my family. The absences were a pain. The limits on your freedoms were chafing.

The comaraderie was great. The challenges were fun. Just knowing that you were making a difference in a small way was fulfilling. Meeting the rest of America and being assigned to foreign lands was a kind of payment in itself. I didn't join the Army to make a lot of money. I didn't stay in to make a lot of money. My retirement pay is certainly not a lot of money.

I'm all for paying these folks whatever the public/market will bear but those that stick with it are doing it for reasons other than money.

12 posted on 05/22/2002 8:34:36 AM PDT by Movemout
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Not only should it exceed civilian pay, but it should be tax-free.
14 posted on 05/22/2002 8:37:25 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: Stand Watch Listen
While I have no opinion (because I lack the requisite knowledge) on whether or not certain job classes in the military are underpaid or not, I certainly believe that comparing them to some national average in the private sector is the wrong way to go.

An accountant in Akron is going to make less than his counterpart in NYC, due to cost of living and market forces. By the same token, military personnel stationed in different places will face different living standards. Skilled personnel in non-profits typically earn less than those in the for-profit sector, some organizations compensate partially based on seniority, others don't, etc.

The military is free and clear to assess the value of its personnel based on the very unique nature of its mission and environment. Comparisons to the "real world" will undoubtedly bring farcical compensation schedules to certain classes. The best idea listed: tax free earnings for active personnel. When I think about that, it seems to make a tremendous amount of sense....

17 posted on 05/22/2002 9:10:26 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Stand Watch Listen
After letting the towel heads fly an airliner into the Pentagon, not getting Omar or Osama, they should let some time pass before they try and float ideas like this.

Pay should also have something to do with competence.

23 posted on 05/22/2002 9:38:49 AM PDT by eFudd
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Oh, gee whiz, we only have said this for years and years. Soldiers go off to battle for little pay. When I was in Vietnam back in 1970, the government insurance policy for my death was a whooping $10,000. It has gone up much more now, but that is how much value the government put on military people's lives back then. The pay should go to the jobs that are on the firing line. If you are a clerk or cook or admin type, you should not get what a special forces up in the mountains or in the jungle is getting. There is a system to break down pay for the more dangerous MOS's. Keep the basepay system, but award more for being in those other type jobs. They give pilots and doctor types a bonus. These types deserve it also. Especially as much as we are running them around the world now. By age 40 you are physically used up.
28 posted on 05/22/2002 10:03:32 AM PDT by RetiredArmy
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To: Stand Watch Listen,TADSLOS,Bob,MSgt Smith,Magnum44,drachenfels
Funny the Government Credit Card has been brought up here...

Alot of the different Military Publications are getting the real story behind these "Debt Trap Cards", and Military Personnel are getting screwed BIG TIME.

Here are some facts;

Over 1.4 million cards were issued.

Cards are issued broadly, not to just "officers".

With-in the active duty, reimbursements are chronically behind schedule, and individuals are expected to make up the difference. (we are not talking about trips to Toys R Us, or casual dinners.) Service Members are only authorized to use these cards on official business. TDY, etc.

Some of us felt that this card was A BAD Idea, but we are forced to use it anyway, because now it has been mandated that ALL official travel must be paid for with the government-issued card. So for those of us, who would rather pay say cash and avoid this fiasco completely, turn in our receipts for travel reimbursement, no longer have that option. Some Units, Military Members have been threatened with legal action under UCMJ if they don't use the travel card, while other units have been known to pour over the receipts, threatening not to reimburse ANY bill that wasn't paid with a travel card.

There has also been cases where a service member has charged their airline tickets (for official travel) and with-in one week (since it was at the end of Bank of America's billing cycle) They receive the bill at home while they are away. Service members cannot file for reimbursement until after the tdy/assignment is completed.

Service members are required to pay this "government card" bill within 30 days of receiving it. (We have to pay for official government business expenses, regardless of the amount, and regardless of whither we have been reimbursed.) And if we do not, or cannot? It is reported to our TRW's to ruin our credit histories for years.

Out of the 1.4 million cards (in the past year) there have been between 22,000 to 38,000 cardholders classified as delinquent. typically carrying $650-$750 in overdue balances.

The Pentagon and bank of America have responded to this by not changing the flawed system, but getting tougher on cardholders.

Cardholders are expected to pay the full amount once they received the bill, regardless if finance has reimbursed them or not.

Defense Secretary Rumsfeld reportedly hit the ceiling in March after the Pentagon IG told law makers about travel card delinquencies. Rumsfeld ordered comptroller Dov Zakhiem to launch a taskforce to look into all gov-issued cards. The report will be out by June 1st.

DOD Officials do not foresee significant changes in how the travel card program is run. For example, they do not anticipate requesting a change to the law mandating that all federal employees must use these cards when performing official government business/travel.

However, officials do anticipate requesting an automated process that would allow government pay offices to directly reimburse Bank of America. (we pray this happens soon)

This biggest problem with this current system is that the reimbursement process becomes very flawed for some service members. It's one thing to expect your employees to pay for Official travel business, but even worse when you do not reimburse them in a timely manner (60 days or more), and expect this same employee (service member) to pick up the tab, and float a (basically interest free loan) to the government until they get off their butts and process your paperwork.

We (military) are not rich people here, this is very much a hardship. Especially if your the one of the few unlucky ones, that the finance decides to lose or delay your reimbursement paperwork. This is a very flawed system, and as usual the service members will get screwed big time before it's corrected. Alot of us sit here getting really tired of being guinea pigs for these programs. It's amazing how we can jump right into these programs with-out much thought, but it takes special investigations just to figure out whats going wrong, and who knows how long to fix, while service members hung out to dry.

Service members are having their credit reports absolutely ruined over this. Granted there are a very few that may abuse this card, but thats when you take it away, prosecute under UCMJ, and report to their TRW's. But what of the E-4's, or E-5's or hell even CPT's that cannot afford to say a $4,000 "official" government assignment? Remember these cards are like American express, it is completely due in 30 days, sometimes less if you left right before B of A's billing cycle is about to end. It's ok to also treat them like a dead beat who is not paying their bill?? Funny thing is, it's the government that's really the delinquent deadbeat here.

*Oh, one more interesting note, This program has saved the Pentagon between 100 million, up to 450 million, and DOD has received about 1.5 million in rebates from the B of A based on the Travel Card usage.

If you would like to know more, log on to Armytimes.com, Navytimes.com, Marinetimes.com, etc etc. They are now actively, and more accurately reporting this fiasco.

A person who is fighting in a war shouldn't be worried about paying a bill that they have been saddled with, or that they don't know when they're going to be reimbursed for"

31 posted on 05/22/2002 10:11:33 AM PDT by KineticKitty
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