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To: tdadams
I have yet to hear a cogent argument why America gives most favored nation trading status to China, an oppressive Communist dictatorship, but prohibits any trade or travel with Cuba, also an oppressive Communist dictatorship.

Well let me give you one.

When Castro overthrew the Batista Government in Cuba many Americans were heavily invested in Cuba. Cuba had after all been a part of the United States. China has never been part of the USA. Cuba had become United States territory as a result of the Spanish American war. We had later granted it the status of an independant nation. The USA had several territories. Cuba, the Philipines, Hawaii, Alaska, and the Virgin Islands to name a few.

We kept Hawaii and Alaska as territories but we granted Cuba and the Philipines independance because their people wanted it. But for years both were American territories, just as Hawaii and Alaska were. At one time everything west Virgina and Georgia was a territory. So americans buying property in territories was nothing new or different.

When we granted Cuba independance as a nation. Americans were not forced to sell their property in Cuba. Like many territories America had gained in the past, Americans were encouraged to invest in cuba. They were encouraged to invest in Hawaii and Alaska too. Many continued to invest in Cuba after its independance from the United States. A long line of pro American Cuban governments welcomed American investments in Cuba. When Castro conquered Cuba it had the most viable economy in Central Amercian by far.

Americans owned sugar plantations, factories. American hotel chains like Hilton and several others, owned resorts and hotels. Many Americans owned winter homes in our former territory. They had bank accounts, cars, winter homes, and businesses there.

When Castro took over he confiscated all American property and ejected all Americans. They got to leave with the shirts on their backs. That was it. Castro refused to return Americans property. He refused to pay for it, too. In response we instituted sanctions. We have never been paid for our stolen property and the sanctions continue.

The Chinese never stole Americans property. Castro did.

You are living proof that if a dictator steals from Americans and gives us the finger long enough some stupid ignorant American will think that poor little dictator has been abused... boo hoo boo hoo.

If you got out a hisory book and read it. Or even surfed the web trying to find out what happened in Cuba, you would know. For some reason Libertarians never do that.

Perhaps the reason is, those that do research, cease to be Libertarians.


34 posted on 05/21/2002 2:39:13 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Common Tator
You seem confused. No one is condoning the history of what happened in Cuba. I am a Libertarian and am aware of it. We have and had two choices.

1) Go to war with them and take it over and take the property back
2)Forget about it

Please show me in the consitution where the FEDERAL government may put on "sanctions" on a foreign country? We are either at war or not. In addition, Americans assets are not "generally" protected by the FEDERAL government when they are on foreign soil. However, if the FEDERAL government agreed with the many people in groups that they were wronged and it was right for the FEDERAL government to get it back, then as I stated before, that is what war is for.
39 posted on 05/21/2002 2:46:57 PM PDT by borntodiefree
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To: Common Tator
You are living proof that if a dictator steals from Americans and gives us the finger long enough some stupid ignorant American will think that poor little dictator has been abused

Why such snottiness, you arrogant *****? I never said a damn thing about the "poor little dictator" being abused. I think you're imparting your own bias and bigoted viewpoint. I'm saying as a free American citizen, the fedgov has no right to tell me where I can vacation or who I can conduct trade with. Nothing I said indicated sympathy for Castro or his dictatorial communist regime.

Pipe down, you blowhard!

58 posted on 05/21/2002 4:23:08 PM PDT by tdadams
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To: Common Tator
The Chinese never stole Americans property. Castro did.

Then why didn't we send in the military, eh? I'm not talking about the Bay of Pigs, I'm talking about *our* military. Why didn't we go in and kill the SOB? By the tone of your article, we would've been within our rights.

The reason, I imagine, is due to one of sovereignty: when US companies invest on foreign soil, they are taking a risk. When they take advantage of cheap labor, they are taking a risk. In Cuba, the risk became reality. In China, so far, it has not, but not because US companies aren't *very* eager to build on Chinese soil.

As you stated, Cuba was not American soil, not an American protectorate, colony, or territory. The people at the time seem to have supported Castro's decision and the Americans of the time appear to have been too cowed to contest it via military means. Thus, America itself is more than a little bit to blame for the current state of things in Cuba as we *could* have gone in and removed Castro whenever we thought it necessary and justified to do so. Everything else is just rhetoric and political gamesmanship.

Tuor

63 posted on 05/21/2002 4:32:33 PM PDT by Tuor
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To: Common Tator
Admittedly, I'm no expert on Cuban-American relations and it's history, but your history sounds a little sketchy. Can you link me to any documents indicating that we imposed the embargo because of Castro's nationalization of American assets in Cuba? I think that's a little off the mark.

I don't recall ever hearing that as a motivation for the embargo, but maybe you're privy to some government intelligence the rest of us do not have.

66 posted on 05/21/2002 4:38:51 PM PDT by tdadams
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To: Common Tator
You are living proof that if a dictator steals from Americans and gives us the finger long enough some stupid ignorant American will think that poor little dictator has been abused... boo hoo boo hoo.

I guess you didn't do your research. The article makes no such point. But hey, why let the truth stand in the way of a good story? Or your agenda.

108 posted on 05/21/2002 8:57:07 PM PDT by Protagoras
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To: Common Tator
Perhaps the reason is, those that do research, cease to be Libertarians.

Untrue. More fairy tales.

109 posted on 05/21/2002 8:58:11 PM PDT by Protagoras
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