Posted on 05/20/2002 9:54:04 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
|
|
Schools, Kids and Whippings
|
|
|
||
|
|
Because of the lack of discipline among school kids these days, some folks honestly believe that bringing back classroom "whuppins" is going to solve the problems created by parental failure, "easy" ways out of personal responsibility, federalized education where the agenda overrides parental authority, where schools blacklist "problem" parents who are, for the most part, those who disagree with flaky school policies, and a great deal of federally-sponsored racial bias. To which I say, bullschwacky! Okay so I don't have kids of my own, but I had two parents, a war-zone home, and I have friends who do have kids. Discipline begins at home. Respect for authority begins at home. The knowledge of right and wrong begins at home. Instruction about the value of a good education begins at home. In fact, life begins at home! No whuppins at any school will instill in any child the values that parents fail to teach or teach properly. It might make for more dropouts, runaways and resentment, including a few more school shootings or other acts of violence, because we're living in a violent era that didn't exist when I was growing up. Oh yes, some violence has always existed ... but not on the scale we see it now. Today's headlines injected onto a 1950's front page of a city newspaper would cause collective cardiac arrest. Letting federalized teachers whip the daylights out of kids in school because they have religious beliefs opposed to certain teachings in the schools might make more drones for the Great Senseless Society, but it won't produce better kids and it will not enhance education. It won't stop school violence but it may increase it. My mother and her siblings grew up in an environment where grandpa "ran the home" and he used a double razor strop to whip his frail daughters and one son. When granny tried to intercede on behalf of the kids to talk to them, grandpa would threaten her with "stay out of this, Emma, or else." That isn't being the man of the house ... it's being a brute. (As a side note, once granny got over being intimidated, she gave him "hail columbia" for the rest of his living days and told him over and over "I was too young and dumb to know I'd married a crazy man." She gave no quarter and spared no insult, but she did stay married. When he died, she shed no tears.) My mother was dead-set against corporal punishment as the standard way of training children. She felt there were times it was needed, and I got a few wooden coathangers swatted across my back, but from as far back as any memories exist, mom first tried talking to me, then if I didn't get the point, she was good at intimidation. My dad didn't like me, my mother knew it, and would not let him lay a hand on me. Once, when I was 14, mama and I were having a somewhat heated discussion, and without warning he interfered long enough to backhand me across the jaw and send all 103 pounds of me sprawling across the living room floor and into a chair. Of course, this is the same dad who dumped mom and me in Arizona when I was in my early 20's, demanded a divorce, and went about his womanizing and the booze my mother wouldn't let him drink. The school issue was never a concern when it came to corporal punishment. I went to California private schools, was a good student, corporal punishment was not applied. Rather, the headmistress of the school sent for the parents for a "conference" when the kids were a problem. At least I didn't have to be terrified of school ... and I do not like to be hit. There are some kids that people feel like blistering until they cannot sit down for a week, I've met them all through life, but look into their homes and generally the problem is readily discernible. Delinquent parents. Or just plain mean parents like my dad and my grandpa. Bringing back corporal punishment into federalized schools allows for all sorts of options for teacher abuse. Race bias is one of them, and it exists. It also exists in the workplace, as I found out all too soon when I went to work for the State of Arizona in 1992 where Hispanics were favored. I have no doubt that kids whose parents are trying to bring them up with values of abstinence, a drug-free life, belief in God, and respect for proper authority would meet with some federalized teachers who would beat the daylights out of them at the slightest mention of any of these precepts. We're also talking about the same federalized system that calls it a crime in some states for parents to discipline their kids with a swat on the behind when they act up in the store. Neither the school nor the government have the job of parenting children, and the parents of this nation should make sure they never do, because they are trying to do just that. Now, before I start sounding like I've gone soft-headed on bringing up kids, I am a believer in discipline beginning at the earliest age. This idea that kids need to get in touch with their inner selves and be given free reign for all sorts of acting-out is nonsense only a new-age society would promote. Any parent with that philosophy isn't fit to bring up children anyway, and that seems to be the way "Taliban John" Lindh was allowed to express himself. Advice from the Spock of Star Trek would be better than the advice Dr. Spock gave in the 60's about how to let kids run wild and grow up without any respect for authority. However, as nearly as I can tell from the reports that I receive from folks who have kids attending highly federalized schools and their battle to keep the kids from calling 911 at the slightest hint of discipline (where did kids five and six learn about that?) -- the first place to begin with corporal punishment is with delinquent parents, and the second place is with leftist teachers who instruct kids on their "rights" against home discipline. Originally, public schools were there to educate children in specific courses such as language, spelling, arithmetic, history, civics, and other "school" subjects to prepare them for either college or the workplace. All other child-rearing was to be done at home. Living day in and day out in any home environment will, intentionally or unintentionally, transfer to the children the values modeled in the home. That's how we got the welfare dynasties. The values of society as reflected in the neighborhood in which kids are brought up will also transfer, which is why so many thoughtful parents today are trying to get out of the city and into areas where they can keep a closer eye on the kids, their friends, and what's being taught at school. When we can't trust our government with our immigration policies, our Bill of Rights or even our Constitution, should we trust them with the children? I would say at this point the statement of former president Ronald Reagan applies to the highest degree: "government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem." Amen?
|
|
|
|
Everyone has the basic right to be secure in their person. Free from physical attack by any other person. If you don't understand that you don't understand much.
Kids need to do what they ar told plain and simple! There is no room for argument or discussion.
Good, I'll have your kids working in my yard this weekend and if they stop for even a moment I'll kick the crap out of them. Hey, it's with your permission.
Just do what you are told or face the consequences, and with pansy ass punishment like time out, there are virtually no consequences.
If a government employee puts a hand on my child they will receive a permanent time out.
Said in a way that would make any government operative proud.
**Get your money up (a letter of guarantee from a major bank will do)
So, are you accepting the bet? Are you prepared to put up $10 million dollars of your own money? Are you going to get a letter of guarantee from a major bank? Well?
**I have no idea what this phrase means.
That's OK. Most of what you've said on this thread is bland and meaningless.
You sound more like a robot than a human being.
Way to go, scholar!!
I know you have a bet going on about your children getting assaulted at school, but I'd like a bet on the above statement. Spanking was still allowed in Illinois the 80's. Decision done by districts.
If you have an argument to present on the topic of the thread please make it or go play in heavy traffic.
Pappy needs your help like he needs another head. You insignificant twit.
I have no bet with anyone. Just a little back and forth between two old posters here that need not be explained to people who are not involved.
Spanking was still allowed in Illinois the 80's. Decision done by districts.
You may be right about that, I was addressing the school systems in Cook county. I would have to do more research on others.
Now you can tell me if it is still allowed anywhere in Illinois since you claim to know so much about it.
Pssst, guess what? You're posting to a public forum. Anything you post here becomes everybody's business. If you want to send a personal message to another FReeper, then use FReepmail. Otherwise I or any other FReeper can and will post our own comments in response to your comments on this or any other thread on this forum. I don't care whether or not you like it because that's the way things are set up here on FR. So you might as well get used to it.
If you have an argument to present on the topic of the thread please make it or go play in heavy traffic.
LOL! You make Don Rickles sound like a Sunday school teacher by comparison. Why don't you try relaxing your butt muscles a little bit and then maybe you wouldn't be so apt to jump down everybody's throats if they don't happen to agree with you 100% on a particular issue.
Pappy needs your help like he needs another head. You insignificant twit.
That's funny, because based on your "contributions" to this thread (which were mostly in the form of insults), that's precisely the impression that you have given us of yourself.
You can read it and comment of course, but the post wasn't to you or about the topic so if you get involved you look like a moron. I'm quite sure that if Appy Pappy needs your pathetic help he will be sure to call on you.
because that's the way things are set up here on FR. So you might as well get used to it.
I've been here a lot longer than you so I know what goes on here, apparently you do not. People don't usually get involved in comments which are made specifically to others posters.
Why don't you try relaxing your butt muscles a little bit
You seem to have an unusal interest in my butt muscles.
That's funny, because based on your "contributions" to this thread (which were mostly in the form of insults), that's precisely the impression that you have given us of yourself.
Us? You have a frog in your pocket? Please recount the insults specifically, not including the ones made to you which were in response to your attacks on me.
Now go play in traffic.
What a snotty reply. If you were in my classroom--the paddle would be out. You obviously had parents who did not believe in the paddle. The only reason I know about Illinois is because I quit teaching 5 years ago and yes, I spanked. I didn't say "hit", I said spanked. There is a difference. If you put up the rules and say this is the consequence, then if they are broken, everyone knows what is going to happen. Figured if a kid was that bent on a spanking, I sure wasn't going to disappoint him.
Had parents who signed papers that said that I couldn't touch their kids. I said "fine" with me--everytime your kid is out of line, I will call you at work and he will be allowed back in my room after you discipline him. After about 3 "at work" calls, the parents usually told me to do whatever I needed to do to his child--just "Don't call me at work anymore!"
If you don't allow the teacher to discipline, then you had better be prepared to do it yourself!
LOL!
I'm an ear puller myself. Hell to be honest whatever it takes!
Sounds a shame you quit teaching.
Keep smiling,
Philip
At your own peril.
You obviously had parents who did not believe in the paddle.
Incorrect teacher. Good teachers don't jump to conclusions. It is obvious that you weren't a good teacher.
The only reason I know about Illinois is because I quit teaching 5 years ago
Excellent development for the pupils.
and yes, I spanked.
Good thing you never had a chance to touch my children. For you. People like you are poster children for why government schools should be abolished and why I got my children out of them as soon as possible.
I didn't say "hit", I said spanked. There is a difference.
I don't trust other people to make the distinction. Government employees would be particularly suspect in this regard.
If you put up the rules and say this is the consequence, then if they are broken, everyone knows what is going to happen.
Apparently you didn't know what would happen if you violated one of the basic rules of life. The right to be secure in one's person. To be free of physical violence. Even you can figure it out though.
Figured if a kid was that bent on a spanking, I sure wasn't going to disappoint him.
You figured wrong if you touched one of my children.
Had parents who signed papers that said that I couldn't touch their kids. I said "fine" with me--everytime your kid is out of line, I will call you at work and he will be allowed back in my room after you discipline him.
Now you are thinking correctly. Keep your hands to yourself and I will take the responsibility for my child's actions.
After about 3 "at work" calls, the parents usually told me to do whatever I needed to do to his child--just "Don't call me at work anymore!"
The parents were morons. They didn't take responsibility for their children. They were slackers and cowards. They abdicated it to a government employee. A big problem in our society.
If you don't allow the teacher to discipline use physical punishment, then you had better be prepared to do it yourself!
Perfect!!! Go to the head of the class and take off your dunce cap!
PS, I personally attended government schools in the 50s and 60s. Kindergarten through grade 12. I never witnessed one single case of a government employee touching a child for purposes of discipline. The government schools I attended at that time would put private schools today to shame. In every catagory including discipline. All without physical violence. Go figure, if you can.
I can visualize my dad calling the cops because a 4th grader punched me in the nose and I came home crying.
NOT
Thank you - you beat me to it. (No pun intended)
Congratulations on validating the "It takes a village" brigade...
If you are going to talk about me, have the balls to do it to my face. And you can be pretty sure you wouldn't have been a kid beating me up.
I can visualize my dad calling the cops because a 4th grader punched me in the nose and I came home crying.
The topic is about ADULTS having physical contact with CHILDREN. Try to keep up.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.