[Pylot]

All land is "occupied" land.

[RasterMaster]

No race should have separate status....after many generations, we are a mix of many races. Doubt there are too many indians who have not had mixed blood somewhere in their lineages by now.

[RLK]

Theoretically the native Americans still own half of maine, Chicago, Rapids City, Council Bluffs, and much of everything else. I don't believe they'll get it back.

[Tacis]

The important thing is not the "right" and "wrong" of their claims. In fact, they have very little to do with it. The important thing is, do they have the sleaziest, greediest, most rabble-rousing, bottom feeding, self-serving, scuzzy lawyers.

It isn't blacks peeing in the pool over reparations and it isn't Indians demanding New York State back. It is their scum sucking lawyers!! Those who'll get one third to one half if they win. We'll get the same claims for Mexicans wanting Texas and California back. Probably, Spain, wanting Florida back. And, I wouldn't be surpised find, probably claims against Mexico and the US, maybe Spain, for damages done to the native Mexicans, the Aztecs, etc. The lawyers don't need live benifiaries to right an ancient wrong. If they win, the money, less their 50%, will go into trust for "the common good."

Sure, the lawyers will represent the Palestinians against the Israelis. But, they'll also represent the Jews against the Egyptiians who held them in bondage for 2,000 years. Of that, we actually have documentary proof. If there is money in, the lawyers will take on the rich guys.

[america-rules]

Something must people don't know is that much of the Indian land the US now occupies was bought from the Indians. In New York the Indians didn't live in tents or surround wagon trains. They were farmers that had rock houses and were capitalists at heart.

Running Bull and his Indian Nation were the ones who got screwed by the US but not most of the other Indians in the US!

[Chad Fairbanks]

As an American Indian, I can say without prejudice that A.I.M. is a marxist, rabble-rousing, left-wing hate group who do nothing but while, complain, make stupid demands a century too late, have occasional shootouts with the feds, and have allegedly (I have no solid proof, but I hear rumours) in the past played footsies with middle-eastern terrorist types... They make me ashamed to share the same race... hope this helps...

[Bloody Reaper]

The heathen Indians lost the wars to superior Christian whites long ago. They have no rights except what the white government has given them. There were no laws against what the white man did to them in the past. They should get over it. They are intitled to nothing.

The upside is that the American Indian is now living in the the greatest nation on the earth with every opportunity to exceed and leave the past behind.

[Arkinsaw]

I personally wouldn't compare the Indians with the Palestinians. They are indeed separate nations within a nation and we have treaty obligations towards those nations that we have not honorably met and in many cases dishonorably broke.

This is not 150 years ago either. During the Clinton administration several millions of dollars of money belonging to the Indians and held in trust by the government disappeared and Clinton administration officials in the Interior Dept./Bureau of Indian Affairs under Bruce Babbit apparently destroyed documents while under a court order to turn them over. It appears that perhaps half of the Indian's money went "poof". This is of course not all, a whole list abuses and usurpations could be listed.

Right after Sept. 11 National Public Radio went into the Pine Ridge Reservation and talked with Indians on the street. Pine Ridge is the most famous Indian reservation and known for its severe problems and poverty. NPR stopped two Sioux men in a truck and asked them what they thought of Sept. 11. Both men were literally ready to put on war paint and go to Afghanistan immediately.

Indians also served in World War II, a total of 44,000 out of a population of only 350,000 served. Most notably the Navajo code talkers who made a major contribution to US code security and probably protected the security of many operations and saved many American lives. They served both in the US and Confederate armies during the Civil War with one serving as a chief aid to U.S. Grant and present at the surrender and another group serving as the last organized Confederate force to surrender. Three Native Americans earned the Medal of Honor during the Korean War.

We should abide by our treaty obligations. We should protect the money that we hold in trust. We should seek out those who have stolen Indian money during the Clinton administration or covered up its theft and hold them accountable. Doing these things has nothing to do with Indian demands but instead has to do with our treaty obligations that we ourselves swore to.

The sad thing is that Native Americans are becoming seduced by the "victim mentality" which naturally leads them to cast their lot with liberal civil rights hustlers. Conservatives ought to lead the way on dealing with these treaty obligations in order to keep the Indians from having to make the unfortunate mistake of getting further involved with the Democratic plantation.

[Cleburne]

The Native Americans Europeans met weren't native: they subdued other peoples, either other Indian tribes, or, quite likely, a previous, earlier people group that arrived considerably well before the present day Indians. We should run genetic testing to determine if any of these people are still around- almost certainly not. Thus, nobody alive today has any sort of moral claim to the land. But the facts shouldn't bother anyone. However, I am quite certain that the Indian "tribes" will not try to drive white men off to badly. Who would come to the casinos? And I say this as a descendant of Native Americans. The current state of Indian affairs in the US is dismal. Only a willingness to do hard work and not rely on thieving casinos and the handouts they provide will improve the Indian community. Sadly, such an attitude- that does not treat honest labor as a white man folly-is not terribly prevelant today, at least in my state.

[tubebender]

PING...

[blam]

SPIRIT CAVE MAN (Died:Fallon Nevada at age 45, 9,400 years ago)

[yooper]

I'm still waiting for some fancy-pants lawyer to bring a class action suit against the various casino-enriched tribes for being responsible for all of the tobacco related deaths in this country...

[Don Myers]

Who was living in the Americas before the Indians arrived here? How did the Indians occupy the land? But anyway, the right of conquest counts for a lot.

[JimVT]

I am a NATIVE AMERICAN.

I was born here.

The so-called 'native americans' who are making such a big stink about their 'land' and their 'rights' came here from Asia across the area of the Bering Strait when it was landlocked to what is now Alaska.

They deserve no more than my Irish ancestors got when they arrived.......A CHANCE FOR A BETTER LIFE.

[Alternate_Heaven]

All I have to say is that we owe the American Indians so much. We did steal their land, and we also murdered their women and children, even forced the women who werent killed to have hysterectomies (sp?) and gave them blankets infected with small pocks to keep them warm as they died along the Trail of Tears.

[rbmillerjr]

I am no expert in this time perior or area of study, but if you look at the historical time period, there are several things going on.

1)Cultures that have surpassed other cultures are conquering them by different means throughout the entire world.

2) Some Natives took sides in Wars against the eventual victors (French&Indian against Brits/Colonials, American Revolution against Americans)

3)despite PC propaganda the Natives barbarity in warfare (mutilation, killing women and children, kidnapping/raping/but keeping women while killing others in a family of settlers) brought harsh reaction from colonials and eventually the US government

Now having said these things, despite the disease factor it is obvious that Natives were not treated fairly and treaties are consistently broken over time.

These things cant be denied but the general historical period sees these things happening to many cultures all over the world - stated simply the world was in a period of transition with strong cultures dominating weaker cultures in terms of power.

[vladog]

They need to get over it, they LOST, And who cares what they think or say?

[Mizpah]

The largest tribe, at least in the lower 48 States, is the Navajo. Somewhere in the range of 300,000 in population. Anthropologists have confirmed that they came from the Athebaskin (spelling) peoples out of Alaska relatively recently (300 to 400 years ago). They in turn displaced (by war or assimilation) or replaced (because the prior population had left; for various speculated reasons) prior 'natives'. Those prior 'native' tribes, in the current 4 Corners region of the US, are often called the Anasazi. Navajo stories sometimes call them the Ancient Ones. I've never read or heard a clear, non-speculative account of where the Anasazi came from. Some "scholars" believe the Pueblo Indians of NM are descendants of the Anasazi.

The history of the Navajo is not unlike that of other cultures and peoples in many ways. They came into contact with and sometimes had conflict with, other peoples. The Spanish ruled much of the Southwest before the Americans came. There are plenty of verified reports of conflicts between the Spanish and the Navajo during this time. Also the Navajo and the Ute tribes have a history of conflicts. It is safe to say that the "Native" tribes have a history of conflict among themselves. In other words, they have not always agreed on who owned the land or at least who could use the land and resources.... who should live where etc. Such disputes were not invented by the Americans. Certainly multiplied, but not invented. Undoubtedly some 'expert', or romantic, who reads this will say, (at least to themselves), "he does not know what he is talking about because "Native Americans" are the true environmentalists who don't believe anyone "owns" the land. Well, try telling the Native Americans that their Reservations are not really theirs. The byword today in Indian country is that "We are Sovereign". They do not want any encroachment on their sovereign rights. In the 4 Corners area, there are sections commonly referred to as the "Checker Board". The checkerboard is made up of non-reservation lands intermixed with reservation land. During the past several decades, many of these non-reservation lands have been bought up the Tribe. Nothing wrong with that. That is just capitalism. And that land is certainly "owned" by them. But then, in some funny way, it seems such land comes under the autonomy of the Reservation. What does bothers me is that my tax dollars are being spent to prop up the infrastructure of this 'sovereign nation' while they use their money to purchase land. Land that then goes out of the Public Domain. By most American standards of living, this largest of all reservations has a low standard of living. During my short life, I've observed many well intentioned (I'll give them the benefit of doubt) romantics come to this area convinced that the problem is that the Native Americans just don't "understand" how to be 'successful'. And the romantics are convinced they have the answer. Many of the Navajo will admit to laughing at them. They blow in with fire in their eyes, "rushing around" with the air of changing the world. They are going to save the Indians from the evils around them. Even so, such romantics can be useful, and may be tolerated, even cultivated, and hang on for several years before becoming too disillusioned or they go rushing off to save some other piece of the world. As a whole, I believe Native Americans do “understand”. Part of that understanding is that they can leverage their past to get special privileges…, be that the right to operate Casinos (multi-million dollar enterprises) while others may not, or to be excluded from certain taxes.

The history of the world is pretty consistent in some respects. The dominance of cultures and people ebb and flow throughout the land, throughout time. I personally do not believe someone should have to give up their cultural heritage to become an American. I certainly haven't and I'm not Native American. But there is something fundamentally wrong with the idea that one can enjoy all of the benefits of being an American, even enjoy 'special benefits' e.g. Title 8 Johnson-O’Malley, yet be sovereign and special unto the law. The 1964 Civil Rights Act, actually allows for discrimination. In Indian Country, businesses can discriminate in FAVOR of Native Americans. You can not theoretically do that for Blacks, Hispanics, those who have white skin or any number of other factors. But you CAN discriminate in favor of Native Americans. Such legal discrimination can unfortunately result in resentment and even hatred. And, sometimes this is only a cover for more deep-rooted problems and issues. But even so, come to the 4 Corners region and see diversity and multi-cultural existence in action. It can and does work. AIM came in the 1960’s and early 1970’s in Shiprock, NM and was successful in causing a major employer of Native Americans to leave town. A lot of Native American people lost their jobs. AIM’s influence is still around, and they still show up. The Native American Church is still active and there are Native American gangs and Native American Biker gangs. Many of the Tribes members are just like members of other cultures, seeking legitimacy and meaning in life. And sometimes finding it in nationalistic, superior themed support groups. AIM and the ‘their just misunderstood’ romantics of the world have the answers, of course. We sometimes refer to them as the proverbial seagulls. They fly in and crap over everything and fly out. Unfortunately, some of their crap sticks. And that, undoubtedly, is part of their goal.

[usadave]

Reading the posts on this thread got me to thinking about the subject of slavery and of blacks making claims for reparations. Can somebody please inform me as to what piece of legislation or what amendment to the U.S. Constitution officially ended slavery and makes it illegal today. Thanks.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

I was under the impression that the basis of the Native American Indian theology was that they are all part of the land and 'Mother Earth' is a living thing that we are all a part of.

If this is the case, then how is it possible to make a claim on the land? How is it possible to own what is un-ownable? Aren't they thinking like the white man?