Posted on 04/21/2002 1:06:13 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
I had this exchange with a lib at another web-site. It was so blatent, I just had to share.
Is the guy I'm talking to dumber than the average slab of concrete or is he just a liar?
When did the democratic party become socialist? If you can show me one element of socialism in the democratic party, I will vote for Bush in the next election (j/k). The modern "liberal"/democratic party is really almost a party of middle moderates, that lean to the left when the wind blows that way. The really only main "socialist" party would be that of the ISO. The term socialism has much wider beliefs and aims that I think you fully appreciate.
"Universal Health Coverage. There is much more left to do. We must redouble our efforts to bring the uninsured into coverage step-by-step and as soon as possible...By taking these steps, we can move our nation closer to the goal of providing universal health coverage for all Americans."
From the DNC National Platform .
That was way too easy.
The democratic party has maybe a small flare of socialism, but Universal Health Care doesn't necessairly have to be a socialist concept. Socialism is the farthest thing from the democratic party. I don't ever want my posts to be construed as personally offensive, and I'm sorry I did that. My motivation in posting in this form is to furhter the free marketplace of ideas, and maintain a civil conversation. I broke my aim when I turned a political discussion into a personal attack. My apolidgies.
Oh yeah, and you're wrong about the democrats and socialism.
You never offended me. And I never felt attacked.
As for the rest of it....dude, I'm absolutely speechless. Literally.
Lets just agree not to respond to each other.
Seriously.
I'm voting on 'dumber than the average slab of concrete.' My father was a devoted Democrat (I'm the black sheep) and he said 40 years ago that the Dems were going socialist.
I hear you. I am a Prof at a Cal State University and my mailbox is constantly filled with the ProGay Leftist BS.
My response is that it is better for you health from an statistical point of view to smoke 3 packs a day than be gay.
Micheal Savage said Friday:
The Democrats of Today are the Socialists of 20 years ago, the Republicans of today are the Democrats of 20 years ago.
Oh course, this begs the issue, what is a conservative to do?
What do you know about my opinions on "farm subsidies, corporate welfare, and most anything else government does besides defending the country"?
Pray, do tell.
I agree with this. This country is extremely socialistic. Since both parties have been in power at various points during the last 50 years or so, both parties share the blame. With the exception of only a very few individuals, ALL of our elected officials have created this mess. Party affiliation hasn't made one bit of difference.
I agree with this. This country is extremely socialistic. Since both parties have been in power at various points during the last 50 years or so, both parties share the blame. With the exception of only a very few individuals, ALL of our elected officials have created this mess. Party affiliation hasn't made one bit of difference.
Actually, I would say that the trend to socialism started with Wilson and World War I. The elite in this country have been pushing socialism and buying votes with socialist programs since then. Most of what has happened has been a result of changing the appearance of the political landscape through control of the OldDominantLiberalMedia. That is now starting to change with the Internet, talk radio, and Fox.
Nothing can be done short of a miracle. The pigs are at the TROUGH. If you attempt to remove the TROUGH the pigs will eat you. It is too late, my friend. We (real conservatives)are a dying breed.
If you'd like to see a bit more of this in action at a supposedly "open" site that welcomes persons of all persuasions, go to Capitol Grilling and peruse a few discussion threads.
Of course, if you tell these folks that you're onto them and their tactics, they'll accuse you of flaming them.
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com
Unattractive.
That's even worse! 80 years instead of 50? Gag.
Given that I bought into all the patriotism and "America is unique and special" lessons in school, I really don't appreciate being lied to all this time.
Hmmmmm...here is the Socialist Party of America 2000 Platform: (Could've been written by most Democrats)
We support the expansion and full funding of 24 hour child care facilities, community education to combat violence against women, and the establishment of crisis lines and shelters for women and children in abusive situations.--------------------------------We believe that work at home, including child care, should be shared to enable women to fully participate in society.
We call for one year's paid leave to be shared by new parents or in its entirely by a single parent. ME: (Just an expansion of the Family & Medical Leave Act)
The Socialist Party strongly supports affirmative action, civil rights, and anti-discrimination laws and programs to end institutional racism.
We call for protection of all Native American treaty rights, support for tribal schools and colleges, living wages on Native American reservations, and democratization of power and wealth in tribal governments.
We oppose all efforts to declare English an official language.
We oppose the police practice of racial profiling.
We call for the repeal of all sodomy laws and anti-lesbian and gay restrictions, and the legalization of same-sex unions.
We are committed to confronting the heterosexism that provides the fertile ground for homophobic violence, and support all efforts toward fostering understanding and cooperation among persons and groups of differing sexual orientations.
We call for full enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
We call for a network of support for people with physical, mental, and developmental disabilities (including home assistance, recreation centers, guaranteed income, voting access, and quality control in residential facilities) that enable them to be as active as possible, and that fully protect their human and civil rights.
We call for the continuation of full Social Security benefits for people with disabilities who are able to work part-time.
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of seniors to a dignified life, freed from economic hardship and discrimination in employment and credit. Adequate housing, income, health care and medication, and access to social services should be guaranteed.
We support an increase in home service and hospice care for older people so that they can remain independent in the community.
We support the formation of publicly-funded and democratically-controlled senior centers to provide positive opportunities for community involvement.
We defend the right of seniors to a generous, publicly funded retirement income.
The Socialist Party believes that a person does not have fewer rights because he or she is a minor.
We oppose measures that increase responsibilities and penalties on youth ostensibly to curb crime.
We call for an end to military draft registration, and an end to military recruiting in educational institutions.
We call for children's allowances in order to satisfy every child's basic rights and needs in a stimulating, empowering, and caring environment.
We support the rights of parents, grandparents, and all other caring adults to share in the child-rearing process. ME: (It Takes A Village...)
We support free, quality, care and education for all children and young people, federally financed and community controlled through democratically elected local boards.
The Socialist Party stands for socialized medicine-- a health care system based on universal coverage, salaried doctors and health care workers, and revenues derived from a graduated income tax.
We support a single-payer National Health Program with full standard and alternative medical and dental coverage for all, publicly funded through progressive taxation, and controlled by democratically elected local boards.
We call for full funding for AIDS research.
We call for the management of heroin addiction other than replacing it with an addiction to methadone.
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of all people to high quality, low cost housing.
We call for large scale public investment in the construction of low cost, scattered site, community-based, high-quality housing.
We call for rent control for all rental units, and the right of tenants to organize.
We support the formation of housing cooperatives and nonprofit land trusts, the adoption of advanced and cost-cutting technology in building, and the rehabilitation and weatherization of existing housing.
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of students of all ages to a free, quality education in a safe and supportive environment, and of all school employees to good wages, benefits, and working conditions.
We call for full and equal funding of public education, for free tuition at the post-secondary level, and for an end to all public funding and subsidizing of private schools.
We support public child care starting from infancy, and public education starting at age 3, with care-givers and teachers of young children receiving the same training, wages, and benefits as teachers at every other level of the educational system.
We oppose tying teachers' pay to student performance, forcing schools within a system to compete against each other, selling on-campus advertising in order to raise funds, and the increasing dependence of post-secondary institutions on corporate funding.
We call for vigorous affirmative action programs so that each public institution of higher education reflects the community at large in terms of race/ethnicity, gender, and economic background.
We support multicultural, multilingual, experimental education at all levels.
We call for an egalitarian educational system with teaching methods that accommodate the wide range of teaching and learning styles, and that provides all students with the means to obtain the post-secondary education they desire.
We support student input into curriculum formation and in the hiring and dismissal procedures of school personnel.
We call for student representation on school boards.
We call for opportunities for lifelong self-education, with retraining programs and transitional financial support for workers displaced by technological advances.
We call for free and open access to information, including the public ownership of all large data bases, so that access cannot be restricted to those able to pay transaction fees.
The Socialist Party calls for extensive publicly owned mass transit systems in both urban and rural areas, at no or minimal cost to the users.
We call for government subsidized programs to expand safe routes for foot and bicycle paths.
We call for the creation of fully-funded high-speed rail transportation systems between cities, with fares set low enough to be a viable alternative to the use of the automobile.
We call for pedestrian ways which exclude vehicles from the downtown area of cities and towns, accessible by mass transit.
We call for an end to the expansion of the interstate highway system in conjunction with the reduction of combustion engine/auto based transport.
We support federally funded auto insurance.
We oppose so-called anti-terrorist measures and criminal code reforms that restrict legitimate dissent.
We call for an unconditional amnesty program for undocumented people who should be accorded the same civil rights that other members of society possess.
We defend the rights of immigrants to housing, education, health care, jobs, and civil, legal, and political rights.
We call for the abolition of the death penalty.
The Socialist Party recognizes the right of all people to equal treatment under the law, and to a humane criminal sanction system based on prevention, restitution, and rehabilitation rather than vengeance, forced labor, and profits for the prison-industrial complex.
We call for free, quality, legal and court services with skilled and experienced attorneys of choice for all.
We call for the prosecution of the criminal activities of politicians, corporate managers, and other privileged individuals rather than the over-enforcement of minor infractions by working class individuals.
We call for the expansion of community release programs and other alternatives to prisons, and for a moratorium on new prison construction.
We call for support services for prisoner's and prisoners' families to reduce ostracism, maintain family ties, and provide for non-degrading visitation policies.
We call for Citizen Oversight Boards for police departments, with full investigative powers regarding police brutality.
We support federal buyout programs for arms, federal safety standards and licensing for gun ownership, and prohibiting weapons whose sole purpose is not hunting or self-protection.
We call for the decriminalization of victimless crimes including substance abuse, and the decriminalization of marijuana.
We call for the overhaul of the constitution of the United States in order to achieve a diverse legislative body.
We call for full representation for the US territories of Guam and Puerto Rico, all Native American reservations, and the District of Columbia.
We support agricultural worker cooperatives, and oppose large corporate factory farms that lower food quality, cause profound damage to the environment, push farmers off the land, cruelly treat animals, and wreck small town culture.
We call for a farm price support system that guarantees farmers a return on the full cost of production.
We call for low-cost loans, grants, and technical help to farmers including help to shift farm production from non-essentials to staple foods and fibers. We encourage the reintroduction of hemp farming.
We support the right of farmers and farm workers to organize unions for good wages, housing, and working conditions (including the right to be protected from pesticides).
We support the right of farmers and farm workers to be included in negotiating contracts with canneries as well as growers.
We support land use planning to protect farmland from suburban sprawl.
We encourage plant diversity, and oppose the creating, patenting, and licensing of life forms.
We call for the labeling of artificially genetically altered food, and the banning of genetically altered seeds to make them sterile.
We call for the democratic control of agricultural research and the complete testing of agricultural products.
We support inspections of domestic and imported agricultural products to make sure they meet US standards for food safety, and environmental and worker protection.
We call for country-of-origin labeling on agricultural products.
We call for the reassessment of all international trade negotiations in light of workers', farmers', consumers', and environmental interests.
We call for the production of agriculturally produced and environmentally sound alternative fuels to reduce our dependence on petroleum.
We support research toward the elimination of the use of pesticides.
The Socialist Party recognizes the rights of animals to lives free from unnecessary pain and suffering, and the responsibility of people to protect those rights.
We oppose entertainment that causes pain to animals.
We call for the banning of the fur trade.
We support greater inclusion and enforcement of the Endangered Species Act.
We call for a ban on animal experimentation for product development, and support products that are not tested on animals.
We oppose factory farming practices of overcrowding, drugging, and otherwise cruelly treating animals, practices that are inhumane and that impair the quality of the food thus produced.
The Socialist Party recognizes that the mechanisms in capitalism that oppress and alienate humans are the same mechanisms that destroy the environment.
Therefore we call for public ownership and democratic control of all our natural resources in order to conserve resources, preserve our wilderness areas, and restore environmental quality.
We call for requiring manufacturers to contribute to research and development of new technologies for cleaning up and preventing future toxic wastes.
We oppose any policies that encourage corporations to place local municipal landfills, toxic waste disposal sites, or incinerators in minority communities.
We call for legal action against any U.S. corporation that violates any U.S. environmental laws in the operation of facilities overseas.
We support the creation of a Superfund for Workers which would pay a worker's full wages and health insurance as well as necessary educational and/or retraining costs if that worker loses a job due to environmental transition, downsizing, corporate dismantlement, or capital flight.
We support a policy of no selective cutting in commercial forestry, a ban on commercial cutting in old-growth forests, and an environmentally sound timber policy that takes into account the historical ecology of the region.
We call for endangered species protection that focuses on habitat-centered protection for plants and animals.
We support the democratic management of grazing lands, safe drinking water, and stringent air pollution standards.
We oppose nuclear power projects and call for the immediate decommissioning of all nuclear power plants, a ban on the export of nuclear technology, and any efforts to use nuclear technology in space.
We support large scale environmental restoration efforts.
We support the recycling of glass, metals, plastic, paper, and chemicals, and creating markets for recycled materials.
We call for reforestation programs which will include preservation of an ecological balance in existing forest areas.
We support mass development of solar technology and other renewable, non-polluting energy sources.
We call for shutting down waste incinerators, and phasing out landfills.
We call for municipal ownership and control of energy plants, in a non-profit and decentralized system that assures the most careful use of natural resources.
We call for the development of alternative energy sources including solar, geothermal, wind, hydropower, and biomass.
We call for a sliding-scale index to ensure that all people have access to utility services.
The Socialist Party stands for unconditional disarmament by the United States and an international treaty outlawing all weapons of mass destruction.
We call for an immediate cut of 50% in the military budget, followed by additional cuts, with the aim of rapidly reducing the military budget to less than 10% of its current level, with the budgetary savings redirected to essential social services.
We call for the disbanding of NATO and all other aggressive military alliances, and the closing of all overseas bases.
We call for the abolition of the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and all other institutions of covert warfare.
We call for an end to US arms sales throughout the world.
We call for the environmentally safe destruction of the military's supply of nerve gas and other chemical and biological weapons.
The Socialist Party recognizes the power of the workers of the world to establish a global society based on democracy, equality, freedom, justice, and worker and community control.
We support movements in every country that work for the above principles.
We reject any unilateral intervention by the US in the affairs of other countries.
We call on all citizens of the world to fight the US military-industrial complex, as mandated by the Nuremburg principles, by conscience, and by a vision of a just and peaceful world.
We call for the allocation of most tax generated national revenue to essential social services such as health care, education, housing, and mass transit.
We call upon all parties and groups to engage in serious negotiations to produce a lasting peace which protects the rights of all groups and parties to self-determination.
We support the democratic forces of opposition against tyranny everywhere.
We call for the US to end its domination of the United Nations, and to pay off its debts to that organization. We call for an end to veto power in the UN, and an end to permanent membership on the Security Council.
The Socialist Party stands for worker control of all industry through the democratic organization of the workplace, for the social ownership of the means of production and distribution, and for international solidarity among working people.
We call for recognizing a union based on cards signed.
We support efforts to organize all workers, particularly workers in the service industries, enlisted personnel in the Armed Forces, and the difficult to organize (including students, home workers, homeless people, prison inmates, and the unemployed).
We support militant, united labor action including secondary strikes and boycotts.
We support the right of first-time and part-time workers to full benefits.
We call for the repeal of all repressive labor legislation such as the Hatch Act, the Taft-Hartley Act, the Landrum-Griffin Act, and all the so-called "right-to-work" laws.
We support the right of workers to hold shop meetings on company premises, elect their immediate supervisors, and administer health and safety programs through the formation of shop councils.
We call for full disclosure of corporate plans to close and relocate plants, a punitive tax on runaway industry, and compensation for the workers and communities affected by plant closings.
We support the right of workers, consumers, and communities to information on plant safety, hazardous wastes, toxic substances, and the quality of goods and services.
We call for the international organization of labor as the only way of combating the exploitation of workers in a global economy based on the transnational corporation.
We call for international labor standards, including the unrestrained right to organize labor unions and a 30 hour work week at no loss of pay, with six weeks annual paid vacation, and one year parental leave for new parents at no loss of seniority.
We support the use of secondary boycotts, hot cargo agreements, and sympathy strikes to defend workers' rights worldwide.
We support the right of all workers to organize irrespective of job titles and responsibilities, citizenship status, method of payment, or sector of the economy where employed.
The Socialist Party stands for a fundamental transformation of the economy, focusing on producing for need not profit, with the goal of a new society without social classes, and without exploitation based on class, race, or gender.
We call for a minimum wage of $12 an hour, indexed to the cost of living.
We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income for those outside the work force.
We call for a full employment policy and programs.
We call for all financial institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks, in order to meet the diversity of local and regional needs and the needs of various sectors of the economy.
We call for a steeply graduated income tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum.
We oppose the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization as instruments of oppression throughout the world.
We support restoring and increasing federal grants to local and state governments.
We oppose balancing the federal budget at the expense of funding basic human services.
We call for a National Pension Authority to hold the assets of private pension funds, and a levy against corporate assets for any pension fund deficits.
We call for increased unemployment compensation.
We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development.
We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and wealthy households at the expense of working people.
We call for the creation of new jobs through the formation of worker- and community-controlled cooperatives, for the purpose of providing quality housing, health care, education, food, and clothing for all.
We call for Social Security, health, disability, and unemployment insurance to be paid for by a steeply graduated income tax and by a steeply graduated estate tax. We oppose such regressive taxes as the payroll tax, sales tax, and "sin" tax.
We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners.
We support the use of any federal budget surplus on human services rather than tax cuts that will only benefit the rich.
He's right...there's absolutely NO similarity between the Dems and the Socialists...
:::shaking head:::
matt
sf, ca, usa
www.rice2008.com
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