Posted on 04/19/2002 7:17:52 PM PDT by ASTM366
Having been attacked by over 100 armed BATF agents on a Sunday morning in late February 1993, the Branch Davidians, a small band of fundamentalist Christians living at a Church commune near Waco, Texas were surrounded. They had been surrounded for 51 days, subjected to psychological warfare techniques and surrounded by federal law enforcement agents who had lost all patience. What the BATF couldn't accomplish, the FBI was going finish. Despite the presence of innocent infants, children, adolescents and women the FBI ordered a military style attack on the buildings of the compound. The rest is history......
You finally exposed yourself as I knew you would eventually. In this nation we have a right guaranteed by our constitution to keep and bear arms.
You and your lover Janet along with those gun grabbin agents which you support wholeheartedly will someday be forced to reconcile with yourself those atrocities. Perhaps not here in a court of law as should be, but in the end when you must face God for your wickedness.
Do you deny that this happened?
I'll take my chances with God over yours and the rest of the conspiracy kooks who only use those poor, innocent, burned to death children to further your Government Hating Agendas.
You may not end up in the same place as Timothy McVeigh but you'll certainly have to answer for your actions when the time comes.
I would crawl over broken-glass (Figeratively speaking, of course) to vote for a Republican in order to keep ANY Democrat out of power. Even a so-called "Liberal Republican" over a so-called "Conserative Democrat" simply because the Democrat would help solidify the Liberal Agenda by potentially being part of a majority in any given governing body.
I think he actually meant "empty-glass" republican.
And you'll lose. You'll never convince me that God would support by any measure tanks, assault weapons, and bulldozers used against his innocent children in a church built and dedicated to him.
By George Kuempel / The Dallas Morning News
WACO-State child-care officials said Friday that they have not been able to substantiate allegations that David Koresh physically or sexually abused children in the Branch Davidian compound.
Janice Caldwell, executive director of the Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services, said case workers have interviewed all of the 21 children released during the cult's 51-day standoff with authorities. "The children have not confirmed any of the allegations or described any other incidents which would verify our concerns' about abuse, she said.
Moreover, a 1992 investigation of complaints about the treatment of children in the cult headquarters yielded nothing, she said. That inquiry included interviews with Mr. Koresh and some of his adult followers at the cult. Federal authorities have said-albeit not without some confusion that concern for the children's welfare played a key role in the FBI's decision to gas the compound Monday. That attempt to force cult members out ended when a fire leveled the buildings, apparently killing 86 people, including Mr. Koresh. The FBI said cultists set the fire; some of the nine survivors said it started when an FBI armored vehicle knocked over lanterns.
Attorney General Janet Reno, defending her decision to approve the gassing tactics, said Tuesday that one indication Mr. Koresh was becoming increasingly agitated-and less likely to surrender peacefully-was that he was beating small children in the compound. President Clinton echoed that concern in a statement of support for Ms. Reno the next day.
FBI Director William Sessions, however, said his agency had no evidence that such beatings took place during the siege, although agents suspected Mr. Koresh of past child abuse. An agent of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said in court documents released Tuesday that former cult members had accused Mr. Koresh of sexually abusing children. That was one of the supporting reasons that the ATF sought warrants to raid the compound in the first place.
The president was unwilling to be drawn back into the muddle Friday. In a White House news conference, he said that taking numerous child "brides' and lecturing pre-teens on suicide techniques sounded abusive to him. "We know that David Koresh had sex with children. . . . Where I come from, that qualifies as child abuse,' he said. "And we know he had people teaching these kids how to kill themselves. I think that qualifies as abuse.' Dr. Caldwell, in a written statement, noted that secrecy and lack of candor are common in families where abuse has occurred. The Branch Davidian children still in the care of the state will undergo continuing therapy and, "in time, these children may be able to share more about their lives,' she said.
Search for bodies
Medical examiners, meanwhile, said 53 bodies had been accounted for at the compound site. Among them were what appeared to be the remains of five cult members killed during the ATF's unsuccessful raid on Feb. 28. The raid, in which four ATF agents also died, precipitated the standoff.
Dr. Rodney Crowe, a forensic dentist, said he was expecting to receive a model of Mr. Koresh's jaw prepared several years ago by an orthdontist. The model could assist in identifying remains as those of Mr. Koresh.
Medical examiners said they don't know how many more bodies they'll find. Some may have been consumed in the intense fire; most of the rest are so badly burned that dental records will be needed to identify them. About 40 dentists are assisting in that effort, said Dr. Crowe.
When the last of the bodies has been removed from the grounds, an arson investigation team will begin working to determine the cause of the fire. The examiners said they'll start autopsies Saturday on 39 bodies that have been sent to Fort Worth. Tarrant County medical examiner Nizam Peerwani is supervising the inquiries. Until autopsies are done, Dr. Peerwani said, examiners won't know whether any of the victims had been shot. Bodies are being X-rayed, but that merely reveals the presence of something metallic. "The metal could be a bullet or a fracture from a bullet, but it also could be any type of foreign object-buttons, zippers or other debris,' said Darrell Thompson, of the medical examiner's office.
On Thursday, Dr. Peerwani disputed claims by a Justice Department spokesman, Carl Stern, that three of the victims appeared to have been shot before the fire.
Mr. Stern on Friday acknowledged that the FBI agent who was the source of that information "may have been mistaken.' "All I know is that an FBI agent walked through (the carnage at Waco) and said he thought he saw three people who had been shot, and he was positive one guy had a hole in his head,' Mr. Stern said Friday.
Friday was proclaimed "A Day of Healing' for the weary, somber city of Waco. Bells rang as residents and visitors dropped by churches, synagogues and religious centers for a few minutes of contemplation. At St. Paul's Episcopal Church, schoolchildren prayed for those who died at the cult's compound.
Shannon McDermitt, 11, could not control her tears as she thought about the past seven weeks' events. "It is so sad,' she said. "The children-that is what's so sad.' Kari Kosub, also 11, said of those who died, "Whatever they did, they didn't deserve that. We have to forgive them.'
Fire calls
Waco officials, meanwhile, released transcripts of calls to the city's Fire Department reporting the blaze.
Federal officials have been criticized for not having firetrucks at scene and for not allowing them near the fire until after the buildings had burned to the ground. The FBI said agents feared that firefighters would be shot by the cult members.
According to the transcripts, an FBI agent reported the fire at 12:12 p.m. Monday. The first wisps of smoke were seen from the compound a couple of minutes earlier. "It's a pretty good fire,' the agent said. "The entire compound is going up right now.'
A Fire Department official noted in the call that trucks would need additional sources of water because of the compound's remote location, 10 miles outside Waco. Firetrucks didn't reach the compound until 12:43. By then, most of it was gone.
Mr. Clinton, in his news conference, repeated assurances that an independent investigation would sort out the many questions surrounding the Branch Davidian episode.
"But I still maintain what I said from the beginning, that the offender there was David Koresh,' Mr. Clinton said. "And I do not think that the Unites States government is reponsible for the fact that a bunch of fanatics decided to kill themselves. And I'm sorry that they killed their children.'
He declined to say whether he will retain Mr. Sessions, a Bush administration holdover widely rumored to be in trouble before this week's events. "I'm waiting for a recommendation from the attorney general about what to do with the director of the FBI,' he said.
Gov. Ann Richards said Texas will seek reimbursement from the federal government for about $600,000 in state costs related to the standoff.
Also Friday, an Idaho newspaper reported that Branch Davidian cult member Paul Fatta was surrendering. Mr. Fatta, who was wanted on federal charges, was out of the compound, attending a gun show, when the siege began.
Hey Johnny you are in good company there with Clinton and Reno
This is the story of Johnny and Janet, such a lovely couple they do make.
The killing of Sam and Vickie Weaver at Ruby Ridge was just practice. No knock home invasions are but training exercises.
We are but one national election gone bad from more Mt. Carmels. Our generation's Concord Bridge is just ahead with Yorktown not yet in sight. This War on Terrorism can kill our republic as surely as the War on Drugs damaged our Bill of Rights.
Never again.
It's a compound (?hinting at something nefarious?), not a church, or a home. You must reinforce that impression by using it in all related write-ups.
What's in a word?
Compound...Etymology: by folk etymology from Malay kampung group of buildings, village
Date: 1679
: a fenced or walled-in area containing a group of buildings and especially residences
Technically, it was a compound, but the intent? The word "residence" sure doesn't come up in the .gov line.
"Feds Raid Waco Residences"? Nope.
Yepper, and then all the propaganda floated and dedicated to demonizing Koresh and his church members...ie child molesting and then there was the meth lab that never was. "If we can convince the sheeple these Davidians are evil people, then maybe, just maybe, we can justify our atrocities to walk free from our crimes. "
Well it worked. Course they had to do much more than that. They also had to get rid of the evidence which they did post haste.
My conclusions? This character could spontaneously combust at any time.
You are not very logical, are you? You claim that Reno is an idiot and then you claim that she could not do wrong. Strange.
I do not make it up - I did some quick google search and got many results, a few returns are bellow (the last is even from CNN).
From http://serendipity.magnet.ch/waco.html :
After the February raid by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) of David Koresh's dissident religious community at Waco, Texas, the FBI and the U.S. Army took over, mounting a 51-day siege. This included such psy-war tactics as sleep deprivation of the inhabitants of the community by means of all-night broadcasts of recordings of the screams of rabbits being slaughtered.
From http://www.channel1.com/mpr/Articles/29-waco5.html:
The BATF raid and the subsequent FBI siege could not have presented a better portrayal of Antichrist risen if someone had handed them a script. What sane person could want to surrender to people who surround them with armored vehicles and serenade them with the screams of butchered rabbits? The government fulfilled Koresh's most nightmarish prophecies, which had the corollary effect of making him the most important person in the world: another fulfillment of prophecy.
From http://www.waco93.com/soldieroffortune.htm:
While most people remember the distant TV images of glaring spotlights and blaring loudspeakers, cranking out everything from the cries of bunny rabbits being slaughtered to Nancy Sinatra singing about. "Boots," "boxes of matches" and "getting burnt." few were aware of the other actions being carried out by the FBI tactical teams.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/05/10/waco.thibodeau/:
For almost two months, loud speakers bombarded us 24 hours a day with the sounds of rabbits being slaughtered. For days at a time, the FBI would play excerpts from talk shows spewing hate for David Koresh and the community at Mount Carmel.
I do not make it up - I did some quick google search and got many results, a few returns are bellow (the last is even from CNN).
Thanks, these are all well known facts. What kind of "men" would do this to their fellow man? The same one's who flipped off the children if they dared to gaze out the window. The same one's who dropped trou to display their naked butts along with other obscence gestures at those same children. Yes, those are the kind of "men" we are talking about here.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.