Israelis blast church with invisible weapon

The Daily Telegraph via smh.com.au ^ | 16 April 2002 | Alan Phillips

[history_matters]

Israelis blast church with invisible weapon

By Alan Philps in Jerusalem
April 16 2002
Daily Telegraph, London

Getting an earful ... loudspeakers held up near the Nativity Church pump out the noise. Photo: AFP,

The Israeli Army is broadcasting ear-splitting screeches and wails at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, traditional site of Jesus' birth, to force out 200 Palestinians besieged there.

Troops brought in a crane to hoist loudspeakers over the ancient basilica, one of the holiest shrines in Christendom, as part of what one person inside called "psycho terror". One of the noises sounds like a car alarm.

Camped outside the church, the army estimates there are about 50 wanted Palestinian militants inside, with clergy and civilians.

The Israeli Government offered a deal on Sunday under which the wanted men would be given a choice between permanent exile and trial before a military court. "If they leave, it's for good but, if they stay, then they will have to stand trial in Israel," said a spokesman for the Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon. The offer was put by the US Secretary of State, Colin Powell, to the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, during talks on Sunday.

Palestinian negotiators immediately rejected it, saying the men would not accept exile, and if they were to be judged it should be before a Palestinian court. But they would accept any deal that Mr Arafat approved.

In an appeal on Friday the trapped Palestinians called for United Nations intervention to save them from "a slow death".

They have been deprived of food for almost two weeks, and the army has shot at Palestinian youths lobbing bags of bread into the compound.

"We are hearing loud whistles and screeches in the daytime and now at night," said the Governor of Bethlehem, Mahmoud Madani, who is inside the church. "They want to destroy our morale, but the only solution is a negotiated settlement."

The church has responded to the caterwauling by ringing its bells.

In a major blow to the Palestinian resistance, Israel last night arrested Marwan Barghouthi, a leader of Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction in the West Bank and regarded by Israel as the top militant in the area, Israeli security sources said.

Barghouthi, sought by Israel since it launched a West Bank offensive on March 29, was arrested in the city of Ramallah, the sources said.

[history_matters]

I have lived in Bethlehem. I am not surprised by your opinions, and I share your sense of outrage about many things. But when IDF soldiers were on top of the Lutheran Church and School shooting at people ... we quickly get into the pot calling the kettle black. Have a look at the video link I posted above. Listen to the Franciscans speak for themselves. Whatever charges Israel may have against these men, the question remains, does the PA exist or not. If it does, then Israel has no jurisdiction in Bethlehem. No war has been declared, and in any case they do not have the right to surround the holy site with troops and weapons and blast it with loud noise. The IDF's violation of the accord with the Vatican cannot be justified.

Consider Howlingly's post

This is where the illogic jumps out at you. There are hundreds - thousands - of suicide bombers and gunmen to replace the ones in the Church of the Nativity. If Israel was interested in their own real security and long-term diplomatic interests, they would pull back and let the Palestinian gunmen in the Church leave without incident.

I am appalled that armed Palestinians are in the Church, but I understand how they got there and how this happened. I was horrified by the lynching, and I wrote to the Governor of Bethlehem. My letter may well be in the IDF's possession by now. But I am convinced that when the Franciscans and the Armenians and the Greek Orthodox say they are not hostages, I believe them.

[happygrl]

Darn, I thought this would be he revelation of the secret Jewish Mind Control Beams.

Hey, whatever works. GO IDF!!!

[TopQuark]

Always important to keep a sense of humor online and pick up on subtlety. BTW, the Knights of Malta do not have an actual military anymore... Lighten up.

Thank you for the lecture, I'll try to heed your advice.

In return, please refrain from joking at the gravesite. I understand that the Knights, of various orders, are a source of pride for you. For me, they are people who forcibly converted and killed scored of my forefathers, bragging on occasion that they had to walk knee-high in blood, poor wretched souls. And that is in Europe, way before they reached Jerusalem, where they burned alive a few hundred in just one synagogue. This all in celebration of Christianity that commanded them to love even the enemy.

The knights, your source of pride, contributed greatly to the atmosphere that ultimately led to the expulsion of Jews from France ---- of those who remained alive after forcible conversions.

So it comes to me as delightful, welcome news that, as you report, the Knights of Malta do not have an actual military anymore...

I have recently rejoiced in another piece of news: it appears that Hitler, who wiped out one third of my family --- I am quite lucky it is only one third --- does not have an army either. This allows me to lighten up, as you suggested.

P.S. Incidentally, please look up the Latin (or Hebrew) dictionary for the difference between blasphemy and a joke.

[happygrl]

I think Christmas carols would be quite appropriate....

Did Jimi Hendrix ever record a version of "Silent Night" ?

[Tom Jefferson]

OK. thanks for the link.

[Lady In Blue]

I pray that it works! I remember several years ago,out here in Southern California.(L.A.County)that in order to keep the gang bangers,and loitering around the neighborhoods,some businessman had classical music played over the loud speaker and it did the trick! hehehe!

[sausageseller]

I'm not a Jew! Why don't you ask one?

[history_matters]

Honestly, I would be in favor of almost anything that could end this standoff peacefully, but I don't believe that this will happen.

I do love the story about the playing of classical music. I remember hearing about that.

[happygrl]

This is where the illogic jumps out at you. There are hundreds - thousands - of suicide bombers and gunmen to replace the ones in the Church of the Nativity.

This is where the illogic jumps out at you.

If hundreds and thousands of civilians want to become homocide bombers and gunman, then civilians themselves are combatants and cannot claim exemption from war tactics.

To be fair, the conduct of the monks and nuns is more akin to the true idea of a martyr than the pseudo-martyrdom of the homocide bombers.

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

Bump

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

We know who wins in the end

[sausageseller]

My point is that the Catholic bashers use the most tangential of topics to inject their venom and bile- your nasty remark was deleted, I see.

Do you consider the truth NASTY only when you don't agree?

You make incorrect assumptions about what I believe re: paedophile priests & Church (why does this not surprise?) but I can discuss that with knowlegable, informed folk, so I won't waste your time.

I made no assumptions! You try cutting me down. Does that not rate as nasty? (If you say not your a liar.)

My point was that Catholic bashing is on the increase at FR, as evidenced by your nasty remark. The fact that it was deleted may be a sign of change

I believe the leaving it in your reply also shows a lack of any integrity on the moderators part. Only because someone reported me for abuse is why it was deleted. From some one who was overreactived on what they think as anti-catholic remark, without thinking my post through and reading the posts of who I was replying to! Why don't you try it with an open mind.

[history_matters]

SHOOTING BREAKS OUT AT CHURCH OF THE HOLY NATIVITY

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

[happygrl]

Speaking of truth, do the Jews realize that they'll have to convert to (Protestant) Christianity or face the fires of Hell, according to the Christian Zionists?

Your jibes at "Christian Zionists" are no more becoming, or Christian, than those who are bashing Catholics, the Vatican, or nuns and friars on this thread.

[Bonaparte]

"...in violation of Israel's accord with the Vatican."

Who told you the Vatican objected?

[Bonaparte]

how do the strict constuctionist civil libertarians square U.S. financial aid to Israel and the "separation of church and state"?

Neither one of you seems to understand that

1) Israel is a secular state
2) Foreign aid has nothing to do with "establishment of religion" by Congress.

Shall we send no foreign aid or other assistance to countries in Latin America that are predominantly Catholic? How about all the foreign aid (billions) we've poured into "Palestine?" Isn't that a violation of your (non-existant) "separation clause?"