[Los Angeles Cardinal] Mahony E-Mail Talks of 'Our Big Mistake'

Los Angeles Times ^ | 04/05/2002 | JESSICA GARRISON, Times Staff Writer

[Mike Fieschko]

Cardinal Roger M. Mahony of the Los Angeles Archdiocese told one of his lawyers in a recent e-mail that the diocese made 'our big mistake' by not turning over three cases involving priests accused of wrongdoing to the LAPD, according to e-mails obtained Thursday by the Los Angeles Times.

[sinkspur]

I'd rather not debate you, for I cannot do it with charity.

Please, Doctor. God can handle it, and so can I.

[RobbyS]

Mahoney is so fuzzy that Luther -- even Calvin!-- seem more in tune with orthodox teaching on the Eucharist.

[father_elijah]

You presume so much and too much, sinkspur. You do not know my age, dear soul. As Brother Solanus tells me, I am ancient.

Be kind to those who are in the household of the faith. Love them with the love Jesus bears for you and for them. Neither Jesus nor his Gospel nor his Church are served by you taking pot shots at people who are full members of the Church and are legitimately living their faith within the Latin patrimony of the Church.

[Mike Fieschko]

The Latin Mass is a novelty, Father. The norm in America is the vernacular Mass.

Would you explain how it is a 'novelty'?

Unless you mean to contrast 'novelty' with 'norm', I don't understand your post. (It can't be a 'novelty', since it is centuries older than either the vernacular Mass, (begun in 1965 or thereabouts) or the 1969/1970 Missal.)

[history_matters]

I am certain that I am older than you...

Kid, you are on the wrong page with this one.
Pax et bonum.

[PRND21]

LA's Cardinal Mahony says he's been accused of sexual abuse.

[RobbyS]

Inevitably the numbers of "victims" will multiply. They smell fame and money.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Whoa. I used to live in this Diocese.

What concerns me is that this is all becoming a 'he said' 'she said' type of thing. How can something like this possibly be proved? I wouldn't know one way or the other if this is true or not, but I am concerned about all the money hungry people lining up now to get a little cash.

[Mike Fieschko]

What concerns me is that this is all becoming a 'he said' 'she said' type of thing. How can something like this possibly be proved?

Unless there's something written down, a video or audio tape recording, or some other physical evidence, every single court case is 'he said - she said'.

That's why we have juries of ordinary citizens: to decide which side is telling the truth. To paraphrase Churchill, it's the worst system of justice, until you consider all the others.

And now I lay me down to sleep ...

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Actually, I just saw and heard her on the news here. My gut says this is not credible. But time will tell.

Good night:)

[pbear8]

This one really bothers me - from the ancient allegation to the stolen e-mails (clearly marked privileged). I'm no fan of Mahoney, but I dislike the 'recovered memory' syndrome too. This can neither be proved nor disproved and therefore sounds like a money grab. The illegal dissemination of these e-mails serves someones purpose.

Good Morning Father E.
And Sinkspur, we love you and we'd love you to be kinder, remember, your co-religionists are not the enemy.

[american colleen]

I am so tired of Churches being stripped bare, a Mass that is becoming more and more 'other centered' rather than Christ centered, and the secularization/Protestantization of Catholics. These are several reasons why I prefer the Latin Mass. I deal with people all week. When I go to Church I go there to commune with Christ, not the people in the pew with me. Why do these priests and bishops have a problem with that?

Amen! I'm 42 and vaguely remember the Latin Mass - but with what the Mass has "evolved" to, IMO, more "Community" rather than Christ centered, I think we need to take a step back and examine our past "Christ Centered" way of worship.

I have been spoken to by the Nun who runs our CCD program. One day I mentioned to her that I really love the Latin Mass and wished that some of the pre Vat 11 things could be incorporated into our Church and Mass... like the Tabernacle being put back on the bare altar... the Nun chided me and reminded me that the Mass and Church today is more like the Mass of the early days of the Church. I bit my tongue and smiled.

[tiki]

What did he try to do to Mother Anjelica?

[sinkspur]

And Sinkspur, we love you and we'd love you to be kinder, remember, your co-religionists are not the enemy.

Tell THEM that.

[pbear8]

OK, I will - co-religionists, Sinkspur is not our enemy, he loves all of us because he loves Jesus.

[tiki]

I should have read a little further before asking the question.

Did anything ever come of the dust up?

[Domestic Church]

Transubstantiation can never be a "footnote". This is our source, our summit of faith. We need the Tabernacles back in the center and we need Adoration.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

In the end, Mahoney went to the Vatican, and demanded that the Vatican put Mother Angelica under obedience, sieze her entire operation, and hand over the operation to the national council of bishops.

Two Vatican priests, one a Msgr and one a bishop, if I remember correctly, were dispatched to Birmingham and instructed to carry out that which in Canon law the good Cardinal Mahoney thought he had sewed up.

Reluctantly they went to Alabama with this news. However, when it was made plain to them that the entire network and organization is privately owned by an individual, not Mother Angelica or her order, and US corporate law would not allow them to touch it, they happily reported back to the Vatican that the Church had no jurisdiction, since it was a matter of US corporate law, not Canon law.

And Mahoney was left with just a bit o' bitter pie on his face.

Mother Angelica is not dumb. She foresaw that wolves in sheep's clothing would come and try to huff and puff and blow her house down. But she built her house on the Rock.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Amen. Our parish has the only Perpetual Adoration chapel in our diocese.

Oops, it ain't perpetual.

You see, for perpetual adoration, by Canon law, the pastor must have the permission of his bishop, and our liberal bishop frowns on "old" forms of piety.

Our pastor's solution?

"Well, we just won't do it on Sundays. Then we don't need to ask 'im."

[father_elijah]

Brian has noted part of what transpired -- I also know that a certain very fine Cardinal in Austria made some noise regarding Cardinal Mahony's pastoral which Mother Angelica disected for all the world to see. In the end the Cardinal of Hollywood became very quiet indeed.