Japanese Medical Experiments Revealed (response to thread about "Pain" caused by US Internment Camps

Stars and Stripes --also: (Chronicle of the Second World War, p 660) ^ | 31 August 1945 | David Gould

[Brian Allen]

Read on a bit. [Same thread, later posts] I was just pulling his wire. Thanks for the assumptions about Japan. In the course of travelling the equivalent of around 650 times around the Earth in my work, I have lived and worked in Asia, including time in Japan, for most of my adult life. I am in Asia right now and have been almost continuously for the past four and a half years. I know about the world's racism including, especially, Japan's and Korea's. [Tossup between them for the worst and most stupid on the planet] And don't know a single white man who spends ten seconds a week thinking about how to dislike someone on the basis of what color he is -- or who, on the other hand, experiences any envy hatred and/or rage 'cause he doesn't like the color of his own skin!

[staytrue]

I appreciate the civility of both your last remarks. I actually think on most other issues, we are all probably on the same page.

[sushiman]

the japanese still officially repress this from their history books. Many japanese do not know the atrocities their gov'ts did in Manchuria, Korea and Russia. Make no mistake The Japanese people are racist, but you'd never know because they bow, smile and mock you in their language. You are so right . I've lived in Japan for 16 years , so know this full well . Are you in Japan ?

[sushiman]

sorry ... You are so right . I've lived in Japan for 16 years , so know this full well . Are you in Japan ?

[ableChair]

"Yes, the FBI conducted investigations - that's NOT proof of wrongdoing. If the government wrongly imprisoned even a single individual, no matter what the justification, that's a mistake that has to be rectified. You still haven't answered my basic assertion that there were some wrongly imprisoned, but probably most."

I thought I did. As with the criminal justice system, there are some who are imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. So, yes, I am sure some never before and never would have collaborated with the Imperial Japanese 'government'. As for proof, my contention is not that the FBI garnered 'proof' of guilt (something that has never happened in the history of jurisprudence), only that they interred people for reasons (evidence) related to past or anticipated behavior, not race. As with the criminal justice system, one cannot realistically expect perfection. And in a time of national exigency, when the very existence of the nation is threatened, internment is justified provided it is done in the most civil manner feasible, which is what I think history shows happened. If you (or someone else) can provide evidence that there were cases in which the government went beyond what was minimally necessary to keep these people from collaborating, then I would agree that that is extreme and unwarranted.

Finally, I would restate my earlier point. If the people who were interred were done so even though they had not or never would have collaborated, then their beef is with Imperial Japan, not the U.S. government or American society. What America did was perfectly reasonable given what it was faced with.

I hope that "answers your basic assertion" clearly enough.

[muawiyah]

Amazingly the US was not able to identify every collaborator - in fact, it was not able to identify a single collaborator! There were none.

By the way, were you aware that all those JA owned and operated flower farms and vegetable farms near so many strategic US military posts were there BEFORE the US government acquired the property for those posts.

That can only mean some big muckity muck in the Department of Defense was literally following around Japanese settlers and making sure that ...... what?

In any case, everybody's beef is really with the old Progressive movement that brought us Kellog-Briand.

That's the treaty that led the Japanese military high command to believe that Americans were weak.

The Progressives, of course, were led by Theodore Roosevelt, and we cannot help but notice that he sold out the Korean people to Japanese colonialism.

Some folks try to blame WWII on Franklin Roosevelt. Well, they got the Roosevelt part right, but they name the wrong one. This Theodore Roosevelt guy should be looked into closely, particularly his extraordinary entanglements with Japanese militarists.

Unfortunately Roosevelt is dead, and this makes such investigations difficult. On the other hand, his ideological heirs such as Handgun Control, Inc., Million Mom March, and other Sarah Brady operations are still active and can be investigated. Without a doubt their primary motive is to sell-out America at the drop of a hat, and to the Japanese or anybody else who shows up.

[happygrl]

Just read your post#60: This is as I have understood the history of that time as well. The camps were relocation camps. There were two internment camps, one in Arizona and one in Oregon for those identified as security risks. I still maintain that the camps, in part, were for their own protection. This does not contradict the possibility that it was also a convenience for those who coveted their property.

[happygrl]

What was in danger was their property, including land purchased by their non-citizen Issei parents.

I would not dispute this point at all. See my post #87. I have heard from some old timers who felt that their safety was in dispute.

[trevorjohnson]

"I dont think slypilot considers "non-=whites" as amercans" That sounds like idiocy. Come on!1! We were at war with a cruel culture. The gov't had the obligation to protect its citizens form potential spies. The internees were treated humanely. It would have been immoral if the gov't did not intern them. The fate of an entire country outweighs a small minority, of whom we are fighting in another country.

[ableChair]

"Amazingly the US was not able to identify every collaborator - in fact, it was not able to identify a single collaborator! There were none."

You sure about that? What about the Japanese family that lived in Hawaii and gave photos to Japanese 'agents' in Honolulu. It's well documented. There were other cases as well. In fact, I think this is what started all the hoopla about what to do about Japanese-Americans...

[ableChair]

P.S. that you would seemingly exonerate Franklin and condemn Teddy makes you an odd fit for a conservative, don't you think? Franky was scary liberal and teddy was through and through conservative.

[staytrue]

Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, Saddam Hussein's Iraq, were all at least as cruel if not more so than Japan of 1941. We did not have large scale internment of any of these groups. In Zimbabwe, I think it is a shame that the whites there are not being treated as equal citizens as they are having their property stolen from them. However, the Japanese that were interned were given 48 hrs. to dispose of all their possessions. Even though the IRA has been bombing Britain for decades on end, the Brits did not have a round up of British citizens of Irish descent.

This is a case of "don't tax you and don't tax me, tax the man behind the tree" Internment is fine as long as it doesn't happen to you.

You can blah blah blah about how maybe someone was a spy, but when Hansen was a spy do we round up all the white people for internment. How about when John Walker was found to be a spy, did we round up all the white people ? Nope. If my recollection is correct, the overwhelming majority of convicted spies in this country have been white. It seems that the allure of sex, drugs, and money is more than a few white people can bear.

[Brian Allen]

muawiyah

P.S. that you would seemingly exonerate Franklin and condemn Teddy makes you an odd fit for a conservative, don't you think? Franky was scary liberal and teddy was through and through conservative.

Maybe an altogether odder fit than we know?

Muawiyah I [602-680]

Early Islamic leader and founder of the great Umayyad Dynasty of caliphs. He fought against the fourth caliph, 'Ali (Muhammad's son-in-law), seized Egypt, and assumed the caliphate after 'Ali's assassination in 661. He restored unity to the Muslim empire and made Damascus its capital. He reigned from 661 to 680.

It is ironic that a man who was to become the political-religious head of Islam was born (c. 602) into a clan ('Abd Shams) that rejected the "prophet" Muhammad in his home city, Mecca, and continued to oppose him on the battlefield after he had emigrated to Medina. Muawiyah did not become a Muslim until Muhammad had conquered Mecca and had reconciled his former enemies by gifts. Possibly as a part of Muhammad's policy of conciliation, Muawiyah was made a scribe in his service. But Muawiyah's contributions to Islamic history are wholly associated with his career in Syria, which began shortly after the death of the "prophet," when he, along with his brother Yazid, served in the tribal armies sent from Arabia against the Byzantine forces in Syria. Upon the death of Yazid in 640, Muawiyah was appointed governor of Damascus by the caliph 'Umar and gradually gained mastery over other areas of Syria. By 647 Muawiyah had built a Syrian tribal army strong enough to repel a Byzantine attack and in subsequent years to take the offensive against the Byzantines in campaigns that resulted in the capture of Cyprus (649) and Rhodes (654) and a devastating defeat of the Byzantine navy off the coast of Lycia in Anatolia (655). At the same time, Muawiyah periodically dispatched land expeditions into Anatolia. All these campaigns, however, came to a halt with the accession of Ali ibn Abi Talib to the caliphate, when a new and decisive phase of Muawiyah's career began.

As a kinsman of the slain caliph 'Uthman, Muawiyah bore the duty of revenge. Because 'Ali neglected to apprehend and punish 'Uthman's murderers, Muawiyah regarded him as an accomplice to the murder and refused to acknowledge his caliphate. Thereupon 'Ali marched to the Euphrates border of Syria and engaged Muawiyah's troops at the famous Battle of Siffin (657). Muawiyah's guile turned near defeat into a truce. Resorting to a trick that played upon the religious sensibilities of 'Ali's forces, he persuaded the enemy to enter into negotiations that ultimately cast doubt on the legitimacy of 'Ali's caliphate and alienated a sizable number of his supporters. When these former supporters--the Kharijites--rose in rebellion against 'Ali, Muawiyah took advantage of 'Ali's difficulties in Iraq to send a force to seize control of Egypt. Thus, when 'Ali was assassinated in 661, Muawiyah held both Syria and Egypt and, as commander of the largest force in the Muslim Empire, had the strongest claim to the caliphate. 'Ali's son Hasan was persuaded to remove himself from public life in exchange for a subsidy, which Muawiyah provided.

[Brian Allen]

In a bit later post [#67, I think] I made a prediction that when the Peking-based gang of 250 psychopathological mass-murdering mobsters that likes to style itself "china" can no longer [Like their good buddies Osama and Daschle Arafat and the other islamanazis] stand the knowledge of Our Civilization's superiority when compared to the medieval squalor in which they subsist -- and are overwhelmed by their Herperophobia and attack US -- we will round up and relocate and intern score and maybe hundreds of thousands of Chinese-born American residents -- and Citizens.

And it will be the right thing to do then, too!

[muawiyah]

"Conservationist", not "Conservative".

Teddy founded the "Progressive Movement". As a practical matter the Progressives advocated socialist enterprise, the removal of European colonialists from the Pacific, the installation of Japan as the supreme power in the Western Pacific, and the disarming of America.

[cynicom]

Sky...

The first three Japanese-Americans, when given the opportunity to stand for their adopted country, on Dec. 7, turned traitor. Other Pacific countries are replete with their own stories of treachery committted by citizens of Japanese ancestory, especially the Philippines.

[ableChair]

"As a practical matter..."

Can you explain that? Are you saying he was a liberal in conservative clothing?

[muawiyah]

Teddy Roosevelt was a "Progressive" - certainly you remember when he ran for President under the Bull Moose party label to make sure Taft lost and the madman Wilson won?!

Teddy Roosevelt may have started out sorta' conservative, but he ended up immersed up to his little piggy eyes in the fabian slop trough.

[ableChair]

Yes, but what I remember most is that infamous sell-out on income taxes. His apologists claim it was a political ploy gone bad, but I'm not sure. I really don't know what happened, I just know his administration was primarily responsible for our present day income tax system (in which the "no capitation shall be laid" clause of the Constitution was amended).