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One priest's take on scandal, scrutiny and accountability
Seattle Catholic ^
| March 13, 2002
| Fr. Jay Scott Newman, JCL
Posted on 03/18/2002 6:15:05 PM PST by livius
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A very perceptive article.
1
posted on
03/18/2002 6:15:05 PM PST
by
livius
To: livius
2
posted on
03/18/2002 6:22:21 PM PST
by
stlrocket
To: livius
But for this to happen, the bishop must first truly understand the real, human situation of his priests and be able to speak to them with courage and authenticity about pornography, homosexuality, promiscuity, and masturbation in the context of the struggle for self-mastery. This task cannot be delegated to others, and the bishop must speak as a witness to the Gospel, not as an acolyte for secular psychology. This does not mean, however, that the bishop should spout pious platitudes; we need simple, straightforward, honest talk about sexual desire, the realities of modern life, the search for chastity, and the cost of discipleship, and priests should hear such words from their own bishop.This priest is living in a dream world.
Having been in a seminary for seven years in the '70s and knowing the priests I do, Catholic clerics simply don't talk about sexual matters, not straightforwardly, and not honestly. They're afraid to, and they're too indoctrinated in Thomistic attitudes toward sexuality to view carnal desire as anything but mortally sinful.
3
posted on
03/18/2002 6:35:27 PM PST
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
that's ridiculous. Do a little more reading. You were in the seminary during what was probably the low point of Catholic liturgy/theology/and just plain common sense.
4
posted on
03/18/2002 6:38:17 PM PST
by
livius
To: livius
Yes, but we can't have a rational intelligent explanation like this accepted by the general public.
The public must be led to categorize, stereotype , criticize, then blame.
We must never be allowed to realize it is our own lack of caring and understanding that keeps us from addressing these problems before they start. (sarcasm/off)
5
posted on
03/18/2002 6:39:24 PM PST
by
UCANSEE2
To: sinkspur
There was a guy who was searching for a soul brother to whack a fudge-packing father over in Lafayette, Louisiana some years back.
Heard the church paid out big time then sent the packer into retirement!
6
posted on
03/18/2002 6:41:20 PM PST
by
Chapita
To: livius
that's ridiculous.Really?
You don't have many priests as personal friends, as I do.
Priests are, as a whole, as ill-informed and sexually immature as any group of people in society.
7
posted on
03/18/2002 6:43:04 PM PST
by
sinkspur
To: livius
Yes, among homosexual bishops and priests there are many scoundrels, but there are also many saints. To try to protect the Church from the scoundrels by simply turning away all homosexual seminarians would also deprive us of the saints.
For some reason I doubt this very much
8
posted on
03/18/2002 6:45:31 PM PST
by
uncbob
To: sinkspur
Priests are, as a whole, as ill-informed and sexually immature as any group of people in society.
Makes sense to me . I still can't see how somebody with the proper plumbing and normal desires in this day and age with all the co-mingling of the sexes is going to take a vow of celibacy and never marry How can somebody at the age of 22 or so really state I am never going to be with a woman and believe it
9
posted on
03/18/2002 6:50:07 PM PST
by
uncbob
To: livius
... A degenerate clerical subculture...a loosely organized network of homosexual priests... This is very scary stuff. Lets pray that now that this rats nest of perversion has been exposed to the light something will be done about it.( See Eph. 5:11) --MM
To: mustapha mond
... A degenerate clerical subculture...a loosely organized network of homosexual priests... This is very scary stuff.This is not news.
11
posted on
03/18/2002 7:00:31 PM PST
by
ladyjane
To: uncbob
Actually, if all priests were just celibate - the way they're supposed to be - this would be a moot point. Nobody gets to be a saint by being gay or straight. You get to be a saint by living the Gospel, something which an active gay male or a womanizing straight cleric (yes, believe it or not, there are priests out there sleeping with every woman they can get their hands on) cannot even remotely claim to be doing.
12
posted on
03/18/2002 7:02:25 PM PST
by
livius
To: uncbob
How can somebody at the age of 22 or so really state I am never going to be with a woman and believe it It's closer to 25. Some can, but not many. That's precisely why I left. And, even then, it wasn't about sex, but about companionship.
There are many men who would gladly serve the Church as priests if they were allowed to be married.
13
posted on
03/18/2002 7:03:39 PM PST
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
Priests are, as a whole, as ill-informed and sexually immature as any group of people in society. I actually do know a number of priests. In any case, I can hardly see how anybody, priest or not, nowadays could be considered "ill-informed" on the matter of sex, which is a subject of 24/7 coverage in the news and entertainment media.
As for immature, that's probably because these men are immature all over. I think that's partly because Sister Snowflake is now in charge of seminary acceptance in many places, and if there's one thing many feminists like, it's a nice, submissive perpetually-immature male.
Go back and read the article. It says that being a bureaucrat is not a holy calling; the priesthood and indeed even the life of the bishop have been reduced to bureacracy. After all, Sister Snowflake and old Mrs. McGillicuddy visit the sick, bring and distribute Communion, arrange the liturgy, and do everything but sit in that ridiculous Vatican II throne in front (!) of the altar.
Looked at this way, why should Fr. Bob aspire to sanctity? He's just a bureaucrat, filling out papers all week and getting to sit up front and grin like a jack-o-lantern at the crowd on Sundays while old Mrs. McGillicuddy distributes Communion.
14
posted on
03/18/2002 7:14:19 PM PST
by
livius
To: livius
Looked at this way, why should Fr. Bob aspire to sanctity? He's just a bureaucrat, filling out papers all week and getting to sit up front and grin like a jack-o-lantern at the crowd on Sundays while old Mrs. McGillicuddy distributes Communion.So, in your mind, we've got to go back to a pre-Vatican II Church, with priests dressed like dandies in lace surplices, before we can have holy, saintly priests?
You might want to go back and read the article, too.
15
posted on
03/18/2002 7:20:02 PM PST
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
The keyword is need.
To: livius;father_elijah;patent;neocon;Romulus;Goetz_von_Berlichingen;Askel5;Orual;Antoninus
Good article, livius, thanks for posting it.
17
posted on
03/18/2002 9:04:19 PM PST
by
ELS
To: ELS
No, it is not the discipline of celibacy which leads priests to sexual misbehavior and predation and neither is it an uncontrollable psychological compulsion in most cases; it is the lack of personal discipline in the lives of many priests which leads to sinful and criminal behavior-a lack of discipline which extends to nearly every part of a priest's life. And this lack of discipline points to the true difficulty: priests are not faithful to their priestly commitments when they are not first faithful disciples of Jesus Christ. Commitment and discipline - two words that seem to be alien to these priests. It isn't as if the Bishop whispers in their ears after they have received their Holy Orders and after six years of seminary training - gee, we forgot to tell you, you've got to make a solemn promise to God to be celibate. They are weak and unworthy of the vocation and incapable of receiving the grace necessary to carry out their mission. They can be weeded out before they do their unspeakable damage. Celibacy is not the problem, it is the answer for a holy and committed priest.
18
posted on
03/19/2002 2:54:23 AM PST
by
Orual
To: livius
A central tenent of Christianity is that morality is not relative. There is such a thing as "right" and "wrong", even if we see it but dimly and cannot live up even to the dim standard we perceive. Hence the need for forgiveness and redemption (thank you, Lord).
Forgiveness and redemption must be accompanied by an acknowledgement of our own sin, and regret for that sin. All of us are sinners, including Catholic Priests.
Apparently, some (many?) of the high leaders in the Catholic Church deny that some of the sins they publicly proclaim are actually sin. When they do so, they cast the certainty of everything else they proclaim into doubt. They cast away their moral authority in all spheres when they are willfully hypocritical in one.
Thus, the Catholic Church faces a crisis. It MUST reform, or forfeit its claim to Truth.
As a Protestant, I disagree with parts of Catholicism (especially the apparent move towards quasi-deification of Mary). Nevertheless, I know there are both Catholics and Protestants in the Kingdom of God. As a Protestant, another area I disagree with Catholics on is celibacy. In spite of these differences, I am confident that the Jesus Christ I worship is the same Jesus Christ the Catholics worship, and that the sins of each of us can be forgiven.
I expect Christians to differ, and have no problem with the differences as long as we acknowledge our personal sinful natures, repent, and seek forgiveness. True repentence involves a desire to end the sin, and at least an attempt to do so.
This applies to the Catholic Church as a whole. It must admit the sin, and make an attempt to reform and end the sin. Since it is a an institution of humans, it will never fully succeed, but the attempt must be made.
To: EternalHope
This applies to the Catholic Church as a whole. It must admit the sin, and make an attempt to reform and end the sin. Since it is a an institution of humans, it will never fully succeed, but the attempt must be made. Many Protestant denominations have fallen into the same trap, including a refusal to admit their own sins, and a refusal to attempt to make institutional reforms. "Truth" to these denominations has become relative, and thus cannot be claimed to be fully True.
This widespread falling away is one reason I suspect we may be near the end times. Another is, of course, current world events and the fact that part (much? most?) of Islam is far more hostile to Christianity than it once seemed.
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