Posted on 03/18/2002 11:24:43 AM PST by Blunderfromdownunder
New Zealand troops spied on al Qaeda forces in last week's fierce United States offensive in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan, say Israeli journalists.
The website debka.com said the elite Special Air Service troops were dropped on to mountains of eastern Afghanistan to spy on the build-up of al Qaeda and Taleban forces and guide 1500 US and Canadian troops in their assault, codenamed Operation Anaconda.
They and special forces from Australia and Norway worked in teams of three to five soldiers, hiding in caves above the snowline for up to four weeks.
Debka would not reveal its sources, but the website has scooped Western media several times this year and some of its revelations were confirmed in Australian defence force statements.
Debka editor-in-chief Giora Shamis said US forces had been troubled by security leaks among their Afghan allies, and tried to solve the problem by using New Zealand, Australian and Norwegian special forces in key roles.
Troops from those three nations were "seasoned in combat and intelligence gathering in high, snowbound mountain terrain".
In freezing temperatures, the troops were dropped into the rocky, snow-patched mountains around the Shah-i-Kot valley late last month to spy on al Qaeda, track their movements and mark targets.
Mr Shamis said the special forces operated at higher altitudes than the al Qaeda and were mostly unseen.
Towards the end of the battle - last week - special forces were engaged in fighting.
Mr Shamis did not know if New Zealanders were involved, but the Australian defence forces confirmed on Friday that they had been in the fighting.
When asked how the New Zealanders performed, Mr Shamis said: "From what I heard, they did a terrific job. They were the eyes of the attack."
Politicians and defence officials from New Zealand and Australia yesterday persisted in their policy of not commenting on the New Zealand SAS role in Afghanistan.
But their efforts have been undermined by the internet, which allows New Zealanders to access overseas reports.
On Friday, Prime Minister Helen Clark was forced to publicly acknowledge the SAS presence in Afghanistan for the first time when a White House website listed New Zealand's contribution, including that our forces had "recovered valuable equipment and forwarded it for exploitation".
An Australian Army spokesman was more forthcoming, giving an account that appears to tally with the Israeli reports.
Brigadier Paul Retter said 100 Australian soldiers played a "key role" in the fighting, and were among the first troops sent to the Shah-i-Kot battle area - the new front in eastern Afghanistan - after American forces overran the cave complexes of Tora Bora further north.
They provided "continuous observation", supported US ground troops and co-ordinated air strikes as the temperature hit minus 20C in the operation in which eight Americans died, their highest casualties of the war.
On Thursday and Friday, the Australians cut off enemy troops trying to flee to the south, killing more than 10. Brigadier Retter said the winter conditions were extremely harsh and demanding.
The number of New Zealand SAS soldiers in Afghanistan is not known, but has been estimated at between 18 and 30.
Little is known of the SAS apart from a rare open day in September 1998, when the SAS revealed it was able to deploy 25 soldiers above the snowline at any one time.
Its members are trained in a wide range of skills, including mountain climbing, surviving cold, hiking up to 80km each day with heavy packs, and laser-guiding bombs dropped from aircraft.
Internationally, the service was known for having perhaps the best trackers in the world.
The Debka website claims to have 4.2 million visitors a month.
Its staff rarely name their sources, but the site has received praise from several media organisations.
A reporter for Britain's Independent newspaper, Kim Sengupta, said US sources had repeatedly told him that New Zealand SAS soldiers had been in Kandahar with a Canadian contingent. He also heard they had been in Gardez, less than 30km from Shah-i-Kot.
The contributions and ultmate sacrifices made by the individual soldiers is no different, no matter whether you serve in the massive US forces or the tiny NZ army.
When the bully was dishing out his punishment to his victim in the school playground, the victim was happy for any support, no matter how big or small. Anything that would tip the scales in his favour. America was the victim of a bully on 9/11, but the bully didn't really understand the capabilities of his victim, and the support his victim would receive. Lets hope peoples attitude in the US doesn't turn into that of the bully, because that would be sad. Thats the way I see it.
Den.
Best wishes from NZL!
Bracero program was a long ago program to bring Mexican workers into the US.
Obviously, farm labor.
Government required some controls on both sides - reasonable housing etc. and return after the growing season.
Lots of people gamed the program but at least is set some ground rules.
Program was killed way back when (meaining I don't remember when) largely because liberals thought it was not nice,
demeaning,
all that stuff.
No one at the time recognized that it was just a step toward this open border drek that even our not-really-a-liberal (but honest) president just might favor today.
Please note my words before jumping into the thght panties thing...
"being largely OK folk lulled by their isolation and lack of natural enemies, there is always hope for the future."
You can't argue the isolation and lack of natural enemies part, and if you want to argue the "OK folk" element you are insulting a lot of very good people I met in a year and a half in Vietnam working with your Air Force.
Chill,
please.
Too bad that we can't manage to say thanks for even a small (but quite capable) contribution. Also too bad that NZ has gone so far down the socialist chute over the past 25 or so years.
It's OK, you can say it :-)
Blunder said :
Norton, NZ has been a socialist country since at least the 1930's; that fact did not stop us form serving with distinction in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, the Sinai, the Gulf, Bosnia, East Timor, or anywhere else we were dragged off to by other peoples squabbles and F*-ups
Add to that South Africa, WW1, Malaysia, Borneo, Namibia and a few others. It's interesting that New Zealand has never been directly attacked, yet has proven historically to happily ship its forces overseas as you say to assist others. New Zealand suffered more casualties in the second world war per head of population bar Russia. It is also noted that New Zealand blood (and that of allies) was being shed during WW2 while the US sat on it's hands until it was attacked at Pearl.
New Zealand is not a socialist country per-se, otherwise this description could be leveled at any Western democratic country whenever a left-wing government has it's time in office. Is Australia a socialist country because it has had socialist governments from time to time? Or the UK, with it's current socialist government- does that make the country socialist by nature? I don't think so.
Right wing governments have held office in New Zealand for more terms than the left wing in the last century.
aimlow said :
At least the australians have a robust 30,000 man army, air force, navy Considering that New Zealand is getting rid of it's air force and navy, it is nice to see that they have the ability to train such an elite unit of 25 men.
Er, no, aimlow, not getting rid of them.
The following article in the March 21 2002 Sydney Morning Herald doesn't paint a very robust picture of the ADF- this one here
15 years is not long.
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