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Kiwis guide troops to al Qaeda
The New Zealand Herald ^ | 19.03.2002 | Scott MacLeod

Posted on 03/18/2002 11:24:43 AM PST by Blunderfromdownunder

New Zealand troops spied on al Qaeda forces in last week's fierce United States offensive in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan, say Israeli journalists.

The website debka.com said the elite Special Air Service troops were dropped on to mountains of eastern Afghanistan to spy on the build-up of al Qaeda and Taleban forces and guide 1500 US and Canadian troops in their assault, codenamed Operation Anaconda.

They and special forces from Australia and Norway worked in teams of three to five soldiers, hiding in caves above the snowline for up to four weeks.

Debka would not reveal its sources, but the website has scooped Western media several times this year and some of its revelations were confirmed in Australian defence force statements.

Debka editor-in-chief Giora Shamis said US forces had been troubled by security leaks among their Afghan allies, and tried to solve the problem by using New Zealand, Australian and Norwegian special forces in key roles.

Troops from those three nations were "seasoned in combat and intelligence gathering in high, snowbound mountain terrain".

In freezing temperatures, the troops were dropped into the rocky, snow-patched mountains around the Shah-i-Kot valley late last month to spy on al Qaeda, track their movements and mark targets.

Mr Shamis said the special forces operated at higher altitudes than the al Qaeda and were mostly unseen.

Towards the end of the battle - last week - special forces were engaged in fighting.

Mr Shamis did not know if New Zealanders were involved, but the Australian defence forces confirmed on Friday that they had been in the fighting.

When asked how the New Zealanders performed, Mr Shamis said: "From what I heard, they did a terrific job. They were the eyes of the attack."

Politicians and defence officials from New Zealand and Australia yesterday persisted in their policy of not commenting on the New Zealand SAS role in Afghanistan.

But their efforts have been undermined by the internet, which allows New Zealanders to access overseas reports.

On Friday, Prime Minister Helen Clark was forced to publicly acknowledge the SAS presence in Afghanistan for the first time when a White House website listed New Zealand's contribution, including that our forces had "recovered valuable equipment and forwarded it for exploitation".

An Australian Army spokesman was more forthcoming, giving an account that appears to tally with the Israeli reports.

Brigadier Paul Retter said 100 Australian soldiers played a "key role" in the fighting, and were among the first troops sent to the Shah-i-Kot battle area - the new front in eastern Afghanistan - after American forces overran the cave complexes of Tora Bora further north.

They provided "continuous observation", supported US ground troops and co-ordinated air strikes as the temperature hit minus 20C in the operation in which eight Americans died, their highest casualties of the war.

On Thursday and Friday, the Australians cut off enemy troops trying to flee to the south, killing more than 10. Brigadier Retter said the winter conditions were extremely harsh and demanding.

The number of New Zealand SAS soldiers in Afghanistan is not known, but has been estimated at between 18 and 30.

Little is known of the SAS apart from a rare open day in September 1998, when the SAS revealed it was able to deploy 25 soldiers above the snowline at any one time.

Its members are trained in a wide range of skills, including mountain climbing, surviving cold, hiking up to 80km each day with heavy packs, and laser-guiding bombs dropped from aircraft.

Internationally, the service was known for having perhaps the best trackers in the world.

The Debka website claims to have 4.2 million visitors a month.

Its staff rarely name their sources, but the site has received praise from several media organisations.

A reporter for Britain's Independent newspaper, Kim Sengupta, said US sources had repeatedly told him that New Zealand SAS soldiers had been in Kandahar with a Canadian contingent. He also heard they had been in Gardez, less than 30km from Shah-i-Kot.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; alqaeda; anaconda; kiwi; newzealand; nz; sas; shahikot; talibanlist; warlist
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To: aimlow
,,, Guadalcanal was actually my spelling mistake. Do you think fifteen years in the USMC might have disadvantaged your ability to think a bit more rationally? Too much time taking orders and an overdose of attitude?
41 posted on 03/19/2002 12:38:38 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: aimlow
Well if you spent more time reading the bullshit on F/R and less time peddling it , you would know what is going on in the world.
42 posted on 03/19/2002 12:45:13 PM PST by canuckwest
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To: shaggy eel
Roger on the attitude but only an individual who has not a clue about the military would assume that by being a Marine you become some unthinking yes man. You and your canadian butt buddy just keep indoors and it will be all right.
43 posted on 03/19/2002 2:23:06 PM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
,,, the day I take orders or suggestions from a rock ape redneck like you is the day I'd prefer to die. Get back to those communal cold showers with your good ol' boys "soldier" - you're a sad story.
44 posted on 03/19/2002 2:27:10 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
Your panties are in a wad again.
45 posted on 03/19/2002 2:28:08 PM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
,,, you're indoors. Why haven't you had a phonecall to lead the troops in Afghanistan? Fifteen years of working in the USMC laundry and cuddling bullet belts isn't a qualifier, huh? [LOL]
46 posted on 03/19/2002 2:34:32 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
You are going to have to do much better than that junior. Do your panties have little hearts on them?
47 posted on 03/19/2002 2:41:59 PM PST by aimlow
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
I cannot beleive how many people are SUCKERED INTO this [ DEBKA ] garbage

Sheeze

48 posted on 03/19/2002 2:47:22 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: aimlow;Brian Allen;cynicom;van jenerette
,,, as a matter of interest, would you expect these tiresome retorts from someone who's done fifteen years with the Marines or with the KKK? I suspect this sort of crap would be way, way below what an ex Marine would stoop to.
49 posted on 03/19/2002 2:48:19 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
i am new here, so forgive me

i thought DEBKA was a good source? why is it bad?

IMHO americans, canadians, aussies, kiwis and the english need to all stand together
50 posted on 03/19/2002 3:02:11 PM PST by BronzePencil
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To: BronzePencil
,,, BUMP your post - well said! - and welcome. I'm not saying whether Debka is a good or bad source as I've never accessed it. A lot of stuff on this site is to be taken with a pinch of salt. You've hit the nail on the head though. Anyone who's done fifteen years with the Marines would appreciate what teamwork, synergy and a certain level of diplomacy is all about. If they don't they're probably still sitting around, really pissed off that the phone hasn't rung yet confirming their part as an extra in the "Dukes of Hazard".
51 posted on 03/19/2002 3:10:05 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
This thread began on a hopefully high note, although few on FR trust DBKA or have real reason to do so.

Too bad that we can't manage to say thanks for even a small (but quite capable) contribution. Also too bad that NZ has gone so far down the socialist chute over the past 25 or so years.

Even if their being in Afganistan is mostly a training exercise, its better to have them there than not to have them there. And, being largely OK folk lulled by their isolation and lack of natural enemies, there is always hope for the future.

PS to those who might be influenced, Shag is on our side; don't jump to conclusions (what is this panty fixation anyway?)

Canuckwest (?) - it would have been nice for Canada to have at least appeared to have done a tad more after 9/11. If there was something bigger going on behind the scenes we ain't heard of it & we're feeling a bit miffed. But don't fear, GWB will probably incude comedians and ditzy singers in the new Bracero program. (PPS thanks for the troops, Commonwealth special operations have always been first rate as far as I know.)

52 posted on 03/19/2002 3:50:49 PM PST by norton
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To: norton
,,, thanking you sir! What's the Bracero programme? News to me.
53 posted on 03/19/2002 4:03:39 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
You are sounding shrill.
54 posted on 03/19/2002 5:18:30 PM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
,,, shrill? Let me just run thru your posts on this thread again for constructive comments - I know I can go that low if I have to.
55 posted on 03/19/2002 5:21:34 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
Must be the tight panties
56 posted on 03/19/2002 5:28:07 PM PST by aimlow
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
Thanks Kiwis. Have you noticed that it's only the toughest warriors who were asked to join in on this? The Brits, the Aussies, the Canucks, the Kiwis..........where are the French? Oh wait......
57 posted on 03/19/2002 5:28:38 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: aimlow
,,, tell Debka all about NAMBLA man.
58 posted on 03/19/2002 5:28:59 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: shaggy eel
Your panties are getting even tighter.
59 posted on 03/19/2002 5:34:13 PM PST by aimlow
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To: norton
Norton, NZ has been a socialist country since at least the 1930's; that fact did not stop us form serving with distinction in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, the Sinai, the Gulf, Bosnia, East Timor, or anywhere else we were dragged off to by other peoples squabbles and F*-ups.
60 posted on 03/19/2002 9:36:57 PM PST by Blunderfromdownunder
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