62% of New York's PAROCHIAL SCHOOL 8th graders flunked math test

New York Post ^ | 3/15/02 | Carl Campanile

[Lizavetta]

The city's eighth-grade parochial school students flunked last year's state math exam nearly as badly as public-school students, explosive results released by the state Education Department show.

Sixty-two percent of the 5,000 students in Archdiocese of New York schools failed the exam.

[Lizavetta]

Can anyone provide us with some first-hand data on why this is happening?

[What Is Ain't]

Hickey said in some cases, teachers had not taught the type of equations that were on the test. The schools will make sure that appropriate math textbooks are used.

It's nice to know such intelligent and capable adults are educating our youngsters.

[What Is Ain't]

The city's eighth-grade parochial school students flunked last year's state math exam nearly as badly as public-school students, explosive results released by the state Education Department show.

I smell something fishy here. There's nothing these folks would like more than to give a black eye to alternative education.

[timm22]

One thing I know from experience is that private schools are not completely immune from some of the teaching fads and social ills infecting public schools. Many teachers go from public schools to private schools, or get their education from the same universities as their public school counterparts. These teachers often take things like "fuzzy math" or "tolerance education" with them into the private schools.

[Howlin]

You got it.

[sphinx]

Meryl Tisch of the state Board of Regents said the state should look at ways to provide "academic intervention" services to help boost parochial school performance.

LOL. Let's see, 77% of the public school kids flunked the test vs. 62% of the parochial school kids. Both are appalling statistics, but where does a public school bureaucrat get the idea that the parochial schools need state intervention?

To analyze this further, we'd want to know the socioeconomic distribution of these kids (although I think I can guess). Since this is NYC, the percentage of immigrant and ESL kids would also be interesting. As to solutions, two parents in the home and turning off the tv come to mind, but as these imply parents taking responsibility, I'm sure the powers that be will opt instead for spending more money on ineffectual cosmetics.

[Tuco-bad]

In the past parochial students tended to be above average in capablity, now that is no longer the case.

Considering also that parochial teachers are less trained and paid than public school teachers one would expect the teaching performance of parochial school teachers to be less than that of public school teachers.

On the other hand parochial school teachers tend to be better motivated than the public school teachers.

What I am really saying is that there is "no magic" bullet when it comes to education (though there is nothing wrong with the quality of education in Amercia.

[Publius6961]

Damn! they finally succeeded.
The teachers unions pulled parochial schools down to their pathetic level.

Everything OK now then?
Next subject.

[HamiltonJay]

Probably that "new math" they have been teaching for a few years now... but interestingly even though both sets are doing horribly (public and parochial) porochail are still 60-70% better 100-77=23 100-62=38.

[Wphile]

I would submit that in some cases, private schools are even worse. At least some of the nonsecular private schools are. Especially when it comes to science - very eco oriented. The difference they might have is that the parents are more involved and they step up to the plate.

The reason why education in private schools is falling off is because the teachers are still coming from the same teaching colleges. The root of the entire problem is the education degree. It's a joke and as much as I hate to say it, many that go into education are not exactly the cream of the crop in terms of intelligence. Consequently they all buy into the psycho-babble, child-centered, etc. pedagogy. There seems to be very little critical thinking when it comes to education. Fads still rule the day even when there is striking evidence out there of what really works.

[RightWhale]

Has anyone seen some sample questions? Why are the questions difficult, and why are they different from what is being taught?

[caisson71]

So true. The education culture in the area has to be taken into consideration. `

[OldFriend]

I seem to remember a long period of time where the parochial school teachers were on strike. Wonder if this is a result of the substitutes or they too are focusing on feelings, diversity and other nonsense rather than the basics.

[Linda Liberty]

Here's a prediction:

Within a year or two, the parochial schools are doing radically better on this test.

If they don't dumb down the test, the public schools improve only marginally.

The market only responds to demand. If people didn't realize their math teaching was bad, there was no demand for improvement. Now there is.

[keyesguy]

I am currently on my catholic school's board. Two points, First the texts we get do tend to be a bit fuzzy for my tastes, big on MLK, environment, diversity. In the catholic schools defense, however, is that public schools pull special ed kids out of the test scores. Our school policy is that all kids are part of the class and we don't pull out kids who are getting special help. We are fortunate to have great teachers and can brag a 95% math and verbal passing rate.

[Clara Lou]

Well, I'll tell you-- it's called "aligning" the curriculum with the test. The state of Texas and its school districts have been all through this. It seems reasonable that teachers have to have some idea of how students will be tested and on what they will be tested. As an example: Will the math test contain numerical problems like "1 + 1 = ?" or "Derrick picked up one an apple and an orange. How many pieces of fruit does he have?" Or will the math be tested in both ways? (This is a highly oversimplified, but I hope you get my meaning.)

[Capt.YankeeMike]

the dept. of education is cooking the books. bet on it.

[Capt.YankeeMike]

the dept. of education is cooking the books. bet on it.

[cynicom]

One needs to cut to the chase. Of the 62 per cent that failed, what was their racial background. If they are so PC as to not find out, then they care not about the problem.

[knarf]

"I smell something fishy here. There's nothing these folks would like more than to give a black eye to alternative education."

I agree, but IMO, it's a 'follow the money' situation.

Government 'schools' get theirs by raping property owners ... 'private' schools by convincing parents that they are better.

Home schooling OTOH is almost free (via secure internet sites, lovingly guarded by their participants) and home schoolers are consistently showing themselves superior to not only govt. 'schools' but this article points out that parochial schools are not far from being in the same boat.

Home schooling is not alternative ... govt. 'schools' are alternative.